"One other thing that is related is that every first step of any figure you can find is straight without any turn untill the end of."

Not true.

In classic technique the direction of travel is unaltered during step one, but there are step in which official "turn" (which is to say, turn of the moving foot) occurs as step one is placed, which is quite a bit before the end of step one. We just had a go on that recently with the weave from promenade after a whisk, surely you have not forgotten already?

Your not thinking straight. If you change direction. That is the end of the step

Look, Don/Quickstep/serendipidy/Polished/pasodoble/whatever, you aren't going to fool anyone until you learn to write. Your "style" is too easily recognized.



jj

Just thinking of the reverse turn foxtrot, surely the man would start his rotation before the right foot passes the (standing) left. And surely the lady starts a body turn to 'allow' the man space?. In a way, i would have thought this would be part of the lead into this figure. There must be many other figures like this.
However, i'm prepared to be corrected if it will improve my technique.

You are correct. The man must begin his rotation into step 1 AND rise early on the left foot to put the lady into her heelturn.

My new partner has been struggling with heelturns and those two actions help her a lot.

jj

"Just thinking of the reverse turn foxtrot, surely the man would start his rotation before the right foot passes the (standing) left"

Yes, of course.

The issue is one of definition however - there are many different places we can measure, and in the formal technique each applies specifically to some things and not to others.

- Body turn or rotation, known as CBM when it's in the direction of the moving foot, simply means that the body rotates in the room.

- Change of the alignment of the moving foot is what is literally meant when the technique books use "turn" without explicitly specifying something other than the feet. Turning the moving foot does not necessarily mean that the body has rotated, and it does not necessarily mean that the direction of movement has changed.

- Direction of movement in the room. This does not necessarily change either when the body rotates or when the feet turn, though both of those often set up an eventual change in direction of movement.

There are a lot of varieties for how the different pieces intereact, but the most common one is a process drawn out over two to two and a half steps of dancing. In its simplest form this consists of:

first, rotate the body (CBM)

next turn the feet

finally, establish a new direction of
movement in the room.

But there are some variations - for example, in the weave from promenade after a whisk the man will not need to turn his body, but he does need to turn his foot already when he places the first step. The actual change in direction of travel in the room does not occur until later in the figure.

It doesn't matter which direction a step is taken, It is not finished untill the body arrives over the ball of the foot. If you were to turn before that, for instance over the heel or before. You would be a typical Social Dancer who has not being taught correctly and your balance would be in the wrong place. Who else thinks otherwise.
Read. Terence's comments under WEIGHT.

"It doesn't matter which direction a step is taken, It is not finished untill the body arrives over the ball of the foot. If you were to turn before that, for instance over the heel or before. You would be a typical Social Dancer who has not being taught correctly and your balance would be in the wrong place. Who else thinks otherwise."

You have failed to study the description of the step in question. For I believe the NINTH time, the literal instruction is "1/8 turn between preceding step and 1" - read that carefully, the turn occurs between the preceding step and step 1.

Most figures do not have any turn specified for the first step, which means that the foot that took the first step will not change it's alignment until during the next step or even later.

But in the weave from promenade after a whisk, we have turn of his foot AS IT IS PLACED - not before the end of the step's duration, but instead a new alignment already present in the initial placement of the step.

This is not something that occurs on very many steps, but this is an example of a place where it does occur.

Anyone who has actually taken the time to get up from their keyboard and try dancing the figure in accordance with this instruction to place the foot already turned as contained in the formal technique will realize that is in fact quite practical and elegant. Those who are content to sit at their keyboards and confuse themselves obviously prefer that to dancing.

Anonymous.I would ask anyone to do the first three steps of a Natural Turn in the Waltz two ways. As the man. Do not turn untill the weight is completely over the ball of the foot. Then complete the next two steps.
Now turn as the weight is over or before it reaches the heel. Then complete the next two steps.
Which one do you think is the correct way
Tell me if I am wrong. But a couple of years ago didn't you used to write that your weight actually got in front of the front foot. Which incidently wasn't correct either. I still have a copy of what was written somewhere if you would like me to quote word for word.

"Anonymous.I would ask anyone to do the first three steps of a Natural Turn in the Waltz two ways."

The natural turn is an example of a figure of the usual sort, in which the person going forwards does not turn their feet until sometime during step 2.

But this thread is about figures of the other sort - figures such as the weave taken after a whisk, in which there is actual turn of the foot in the INITIAL placement of step 1.

Two different situations, two different techniques required.

"But a couple of years ago didn't you used to write that your weight actually got in front of the front foot. Which incidently wasn't correct either."

No, it absolutely is correct about the situations for which it was written, however THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS. Because we are coming from a whisk, the situation ins much different from the usual case.