ok, i was thinking about heel turns and i have realized that i dont get them very well. i always miss the rise from the man, therefore i mess up the heel turn. another thing, are they impossible to do in 2.5 inch latin sandals? i have been preacticing in latin shoes. is that a problem? i think it is but i have not had a chance to get court shoes.
heel turns can be done in american style correct?
sorry if i sound a bit dumb, but i am sort of new at this..

one more thing, can some one give me pointers on how to sucessfully complete a rhonde.

Leading heel turns is something that is very, very hard for guys to figure out. Give them too much 'help' and they may not even realize what they are failing to do...

Latin sandals sure aren't going to help your heel turns, as the heels are kind of wobbly. (I'd actualy be even more worried about how they will keep you from properly rolling through your feet on walking actions).

A common problem with heel turns is that people try to do them on both heels. This is incorrect: as your bring your feet together, you turn from the heel of one foot, more or less onto the toe of the other. Trying to turn with weight in both heels will simply make your feet smash into each other... Instead, the unweighted heel is held about a paper thickness off the floor (more exactly, it slides on the floor without weight). Yes - that does take practice. You could try doing them in flat street shoes as long as they aren't too sticky (ie, no sneakers).

You can do heel turns in American Smooth. Gentleman do a fair number of them in one primary school of smooth dancing (doing essentially an open impetus). Ladies do not generally do heel turns in american foxtrot basics, but as the owner of this website has observed in the past, virtually everyone has a telemark somewhere in their open smooth choregoraphy (which would be a reverse or leftwared heel turn for the lady). Since after syllabus it's fair game to import any idea from standard that you can convincingly fit into the flow of your smooth routine, there are other possibilities too.

HEEL TURN SINGULAR. Not a Heels Turn, which it is not. A very well known, now retired , former Ballroom Champion, no names no pack drill, now living in my part of the world, gave a lecture just recently in which he said that if the toe is turned inwards on the first step
of the heel turn it becomes a breeze, Don't forget there is also sway which helps the step by taking the weight off the moving foot. Try it. Happy Dancing

It's a good idea for the man and woman to swap roles occasionally - especially the feather step - reverse turn - feather finish amalgamation in foxtrot. That way , both partners get a much better idea of what they need to be doing.
As smoothie has pointed out - the heel turn can only happen on one heel (lady's right in this case), the other being held against it. A man's impetus turn is very similar, though usually on the left heel.
I found that i was 'rushing' the lady a little - she needs time to complete the actual turn and transfer weight onto the balls of her feet.
Another piece of advice i picked up at a lecture is that the MAN DOES THE TURNING. When my partner leaves the turning to me, the feeling is a whole lot smoother than if she tries to 'assist' (i'm talking about the foxtrot amalgamation i mentioned).
Like every practical skill - it takes study and practice.

Sarcastic Smoothie made a good post there. It is often difficult for men to lead heel turns so I doubt missing them is always your fault. Chances are the man's having trouble getting the lead right, too. You can help out a bit if you know where to expect them, but help too much and the man may just get into bad habits that are hard to break. Still, I really appreciate it when heel turns work and feel good. I doubt I'm changing my lead all that much when I do them so I kind of assume the lady is helping. If she's just doing things properly because my lead was decent or if she's compensating a bit for a bad lead because she knows where to expect the heel turn, I'm not sure. I just wish I could tell the difference in feel better so that I can get a better idea of what I'm doing differently that makes some work and some not. I do typically have more trouble with leading natural heel turns than reverse ones though -- that's still a pretty constant effect. And leading the difference between a Natural Turn and a Natural Weave always gives me problems.

Tips on doing heel turns? Well, I imagine the latin sandals aren't doing you any favors here. I doubt it's impossible to get heel turns in them, but it will probably be harder. As already noted, you don't turn on both heels. The turn is made on one foot while the other draws in next to it. I think the man's CBM(P?), sway, and early rise are also important factors in getting the move right. The man's second step is something of a cut-off step, something to block the lady from coming forward and (hopefully) effectively force her to close her feet together for the heel turn. I also recall learning, as phil.samways said, that the man turns around the woman. The axis of rotation goes through the lady's heel that she's turning on, IIRC. She needs to basically stay in place, kind of balance the turn, and let the man come around her.

When I was taking classes we did a simple practice exercise to drill a bit. I think we did this with our hands on a wall, adjusted as needed, just to help with balance and make things a bit easier. Men and women did it because Impetus turns are basically the man's heel turns. Say you start turned 1/8 R to face the wall on an angle. Step back on the RF, draw in the LF while making 1/4 L, change the weight, step out on the RF, then collect the LF in to the RF. Then repeat switching R and L to do the other heel turn. If I got a better description of it, it's not in the notes I have here right now. But here are some class notes on heel turns that I do have with me.

Stay down, feet flat at end after drawing foot in with T up on step 2; man rises though and should not pull lady up with him. Step 2 = "tripod position" -- lady's feet together on heel turn and man's feet apart and parallel = 3 points of a tripod, should be a stable position. Heel Turn Checklist: Lady -- heel on floor all the way in to closed position; 3rd step is TH; close as late as possible, raise hip of closing foot; Man -- step 2 = tripod, feet apart, lady's feet together pointing between yours;also raise hip of stepping foot on step 2 to match lady; finish rise at end of step 1.

For heel turn, I would use the heel of the stepping foot to make the turn, after the closing foot is pulled side by side; after the turn is completed, then transfer weight.

I have also heard that some instructors advocate using the heel of the closing foot to turn after weight transfer.

It seems to me that the second method would need more force and effort to make the turn.

For further information on heel turn :

http://www.dancesport.uk.com/tid-bits/issue163.htm

http://www.dancesport.uk.com/tid-bits/issue124.htm

Happy Turning!

skipper

I dont know how to lead a heel turn. All I know is to do my own turn (telemark, or impetus, etc.) with the best posture I can manage, good rise on the 2nd step as my shoulders turn. My partner then does or doesnt do a heel turn.

If someone has a suggestion to me re how to lead it, please tell me.

Regarding ronde COMPLETION? Since you're down through the entire ronde, you rise at the end for whatever exit you are using. I think.

Jerry Blumenthal

You would think that the heel turn is a simple concept, yet it has taken me years to learn, and still I find it difficult.

First of all, if you do not get the rise from the lead(man) you cannot make it happen. It is a reaction to the lead that makes the heel turn happen. Oh yes... my husband and I have had a few heated arguements over this!!!

Next, singular is right to the point. You are on one heel for a split second, and then knees bent very quickly. From my own experience I can say that you are very tempted to try to balance on two heels prior to the completion. It is a very quick "in and out". Easy to say in words, really hard to accomplish.

Ya know I have read comments on this board and really tried to visualize what each poster is saying. Most of the time I feel so inadequate(sp) to understand.. Frankly, I have a lot of trouble following the words, so I rely on feel and a lot of hard work with my husband(Partner)

Well, in the end it all comes down to feel and muscle memory anyway, doesn't it? So don't worry about it. Sometimes it is very difficult to explain the physical concepts of dancing in words. We do our best, but still in order to really get something you're going to have to dance it and practice it until it feels and works right.

My opinion is that the lady when practicing on her own a heel turn has to physically turn herself. With a partner it should just happen. If the moving foot is held in position for the two beats ,and not moved too early, in other words stay on the supporting foot longer, the feet will come together without any fear of the moving foot passing. Moving it too early can create all kinds of problems. I would recommend that you see if you can find the John Woods and Anne Lewis on video Waltz and Foxtrot. There are a few things that would be too difficult to explain in writting but very expertly explained on the video. Count 12.3.4. there is plenty of time so use it. Good Luck