Crim,

Actually, I think if you research it you'll find Paso was popularized in Paris, France in the 20's.

As for being a purist, I can certainly respect that. I certainly feel that way about Mozart. But too much purity can also lead to stagnation. Art is not static. Paso is already static in that you rarely see and hear it performed but to the one piece of music (Espani Cani). How often have I been to competitions where the person handling the music plays a different paso only to see awful performances on the floor because the competitors only ever worked with the one piece of music.

The dance is "Paso Doble" not "Espani Cani". Imagine only ever dancing Waltz or Cha Cha to one piece of music over and over ad nauseum .That would be choreography not dance.

And what is Paso? It's a march in 2/2. The piece by the 4 Tops has a very strong feel of 2 as I recall so my opinion is it would be a refreshing approach and show adaptability.

But don't get me wrong. This is just an opinion. Your opinion is equally valid.

OB



OB

choreography can not be dance? What is dance?

Sunshine,

Good question!

Hmmmmmm!

OB

That's a superb question! And I have an opinion, if not an answer.

I saw a tape of some QuickStep experts breaking down their routine into stuff that lesser mortals could do, and showing how a step could progress the other way- from completely led to not touching, with parallel movement.

When I muve forward toward my partner, I am leading something. But she has to know dance well enough to know that. When you get into more and more complex movements, like the variations on this website, they have to be learned. I can still lead into it, but partner needs to know what I'm doing based on having learned the step. So that's clearly something other than strict LEAD AND FOLLOW. It's a little like "let's do this" and have fun with it. And that IS dancing.

I think tho that when EVERY step of the dance from start to end is planned, then it becomes a set piece, and it is no longer spontaneous dancing, but is a pretty showcase routine. If you dont feel that that is dancing, then I guess it isnt. (But I'd love to be able to do it.....)

Jerry

Just for discussion's sake:

We all do routines. If you're blocked in a corner on any travelling dance when it clears you can carry on.

With a paso, practiced (choreographed) to one piece only how easy is it to adjust?

With a traveling dance dancing to my mind is the ability to easily move your partner into unscripted sequences smoothly and seamlessly when confronted with problems ahead. As Pat Bovaird puts it, "If the man dances correctly then the lady has no choice but to dance correctly." What I dislike about routines (in my own dancing) is that the follow anticipates the next step instead of me creating a situation that her step should be a natural consequence of my action.

To me that's a bit of the difference between dance and choreography in ballroom.

Other opinions?

OB

Interesting. By that definition, however, you could not consider ballet a dance unless done as an improv. Are broadway performers dancers?

Sun,

To me that's a bit of the difference between dance and choreography in ballroom.


Specifically stated "ballroom" for just that reason. But hey, I'm really talking an ideal here. As I look at it:

We all dance routines but paso would seem to be more highly scripted than the others. When any other paso but Espani Cani is played most routines suffer or fall apart. "Oh! Oh! Different introduction! What do we do now!" Deer in the headlights look.

My argument originally was that I wanted to see if I could try a paso to a Four Tops tune to break away from too much reliance on choreography and to experiment.

There is more than 1 paso out there.

OB

Sun,

Just to add:

In a sense I would agree with how you interpreted my statement.

I would consider ballet primarily a performance based on dance.

OB

I wish I had said it that well.
Jerry

Jerry,

I was rereading this thread and found what you said very interesting:

When I muve forward toward my partner, I am leading something. But she has to know dance well enough to know that. When you get into more and more complex movements, like the variations on this website, they have to be learned. I can still lead into it, but partner needs to know what I'm doing based on having learned the step. So that's clearly something other than strict LEAD AND FOLLOW. It's a little like "let's do this" and have fun with it. And that IS dancing.

My wife and I work with several teachers and dance out of syllabus and rely a lot on choreography and routines. So we can dance a routine but I somehow feel we are not dancing.

We live on the west coast in an area that doesn't have access usually to high level coach/finishers. By luck one of our local teachers is working towards her fellowship. Her teacher, who lives in Montreal travels extensively to the Far East as an ISTD Examiner. He stops here for about 10 days every 2 months on his way. We take as much time with him as we can when he's here.

In his 70's now, he is a former National Champion and 6 or 7 time judge at the World's.

His theory is that if the man dances correctly the lady has no choice but to dance correctly. Obviously this is a simplification as the lady has to develop her contribution to a high level too. Still, when I've danced the woman's part as he demonstrates things with me I quite literally have no choice but to put my feet exactly where he wants them to go. It's amazing and effortless and no pushing or pulling at all.

My wife and I get this occassionally and I can tell you my wife is very happy for the rest of the day when we're getting it but our coach does it all the time. It's internalized in his body.

So I don't know if this makes intuitive sense but:

My wife and I dance.

Our teacher/coach is dancing.

OB