cdroge and others. Well didn't that question bring on a response. I was thinking more towards, apart from the rise and fall and the obvious alignment. In an underturned Spin Turn how simular the steps are when you compare the mans 123 to the ladies 456. We have a different rise and fall, there are five in the Modern Waltz. here we have two of the five. For the lady there is a half turn on the right foot. To continue the amount of turn depends if we are doing a normal Spin Turn as in the book. Or a Overturned or under turned Spin Turn. The under turned is probobly the most used by us. We need to get away from the outside of the ballroom into the more interesting reverse movements. Besides that you'll get run over.

/* We have a different rise and fall, there are five in the Modern Waltz. here we have two of the five. */

Once again your technique is wrong! Check the different types of rise and fall again in the Waltz. I'm sure you will find more than five!

Dancefad. Are you calling the rise and fall as being different in the first three of a Natural or a Whisk. They are the same. Syncapated Chasse is Different as is 4 5 6 of a Spin or Impetus Turn. Reverse Weave is the same as the first three of the Natural.Most of the steps you do would almost certainly be Rise at the end of one .Continue to rise on two and three. Lower at the end of three. Turning Lock after a Spin Turn has a different rise and fall. No I'm still on five different rise and falls. Some of the above are the same.

/* Dancefad. Are you calling the rise and fall as being different in the first three of a Natural or a Whisk. They are the same. */

Don. The R&F for 1-3 Nat is not the same as the Whisk, which is Up on 3. The Rev Corte is rise on 2.The DRS is Rise e/o 1. The Wing as a slight rise between 2-3 with NFR.

/*Reverse Weave is the same as the first three of the Natural. */

I let someone else answer that one!

Don. I enjoy most of your messages but I wish you would take more care when quoting the technique book. In your own mind you may consider your self to be correct but I can assure you you would fail a pro exam.

Dancefad.Straight out of the book, Rise and Fall. The first three of the Natural is. Commence to rise at the end of one. Continue to rise on two and three. Lower at the end of three. Now the Whisk. Commence to rise at the end of one. Continue to rise on two. Up on three. Lower at the end of three. I think you will find that the slight difference in the description on the three is because one has a closer of the feet plus the turn. The other has not. It might be of interest to mention that on the Whisk todays dancer both man and lady have a shaping of the foot on step two, which is something fairly new..

Don. Please don't quote the tec to me. I can assure you I'm well versed in that department. Just one more error in the writing of your technique, Don. When you write Rise e/o 1 the following has to be UP, not continue. I'm on tour now till Aug 15th.

cdroge. This gets intersting. The rise for the lady is at the end of step five. Not on four. This is why we see the lady hurling themselves around the man out of conrol. Same for the man. Rise at the end of five. Out come the books.

There certainly are some analogies that can be drawn between the concept of a swinging body of mass in physics, the concept of swing as applied in sporting actions like the swing of a golf club, baseball bat or tennis racquet and the concept of swing as applied in ballroom standard swing dances. But to believe that the concept of swing as applied in these other pursuits is directly comparable in all respects to ballroom swing and that the concept is directly derived from these other sources is entirely misplaced.

There certainly is more than one type of 'swing' in ballroom dancing. Body swing is swing in the horizontal plane starting at the very commencement of a figure. Pendulum swing or upswing is the swing in the horizontal plane. They are two cases of a comparable and similar concept of 'swing' as applied in ballroom because in the case of body swing one has the 'feeling' of swinging one side of the body faster than the other side in the horizontal plane. In the case of upswing the 'feeling' is that the lower part of body is swinging faster the upper part of the body in the vertical plan. In both cases this swing type of action aids a forward progression taking us from one foot to the next so neither case of 'swing' actually has a fixed point during it's entire evolution.

Additionally I hold the view that CBM is a direct consequence of 'body swing' though body swing does not necessarily always create a CBM reaction. It depends on the figure, which foot is moving first, what the direction of turn is, etc.

I know this is controversial but upswing to me is not an intention to rise, it is an intention to produce a controlled swing of the body forward leveraging the lower body in the vertical plane that can produce an inclination of the body to the movement and various aspects of rise. In fact all rise 'n fall, whether foot rise or body rise, are not deliberate actions but reactions that occur from an intent to progress forward in a controlled manner with 'swing' both body swing and upswing.

Effective way of sorting out a whole bunch of 'technical' issues around CBM, rise 'n fall, aspects of sway and even footwork in ballroom swing dances is simply to think about progressing your body forward, in a controlled manner, using the knees/ankles with the correct amount and proportion of body swing and upswing.

Rha

"Pendulum swing or upswing is the swing in the horizontal plane"

Typo, I mean't vertical plane.

Rha

The problem I have with the idea of horizontal-plane body swing is that it's usually interpreted as throwing your body around, and that is something we simply can't have. Well timed CBM occurs while still supported from the standing foot, so it's much more of a twisting drive than a free throwing. There is a drifting phase in the body, but that is a straight-line movement that occurs after the body turn, and is coincident with the flatter initial part of any vertical pendulum-like swing.

Actually even twisting drive is a bit of a misnomer. There's not really much drive on step one of a figure, rather there is carrying the energy from the downswing through the step. The one thing the legs really have to add there is the body rotation we call CBM - that's the only thing that really happens with intent in terms of motion across the floor. The other intentional component would be footwork that creates an upswing, if appropriate.