Don't watch IDSF events for technique, the dancers are mostly too young to know what they are doing, though they do put on quite an impressive show. Sadly the same can now be said even for a lot of the professional events. But what the couples who win, often there are subtle but key differences.

For example, many dancers even into professional finals do not understand how to make shape their bodies so that both can occupy the same point in space. Instead, the detour around each other. This detouring means they take a very large step one (since the partner has stepped sideways out of the way) but because they have lost alignment they are now constrained to take a smaller step two. Contrast the true experts, the best of the best current and retired, and you see that they stay in each others way but move together. This creates slightly less travel on the first step, but a much larger free release on the second, which is the way the modern waltz has always been explained.

Suomynona. I still believe a very wide second step will lose control. The best way to find out is to do it. If you can stop dead with your feet together and be as high on your toes on the third beat before lowering. That's perfect. But if the feet are passing and the following step taken more as a prop than a step. That isn't correct. The danger is if everybody around you is doing the step wrong it can rub off. I can't agree that the leading Amatures technique is lacking. Who do you think they have lessons with .Maybe you don't have acess to some of the tapes I am watching. There will be another on 10th Nov. I suppose you are aware that Mirko Gozzoli used to norrowly beat the present champion Soale. He Mirko Gozzoli
turned professional and in a little over a year is right up in first place as a professional. As I have said before. In the final of a IDSF some of the dances are solo before the group. As we are all aware we can watch in slow motion once it's taped. Sorry if some of you don't have the same luxury.

You may not be able to take a large second step without loosing control, but using the proper technique it is easy to do so.

On the IDSF events, yes you can get a good couple now and then, but by and large the field is too young and too results oriented to show real insight into the technique. Very few of a top teachers students will fully understand the core ideas in what that teacher teaches - those who do are awesome, the rest end up as professionals who teach a watered down version based on their understanding, to students who will understand even less of that. It's not enough to study with the best, you have to take the time and effort to fully understand, and most even at world level do not.

Annon. I was not talking about the amount of rise but the lilting action that should be danced throughout the basic 18 of the waltz. How to accomplish this without any help from the knee(compresion )of the second step as the foot is brought along side for the count of three. I beleave the same action of the knee used in the weave,wisk and elseware on the second step happens on the natural turn, but is no longer danced because of the exaggerated sway danced by today's top pro's.

No, the fundamental difference between a closed foot action and a passing action such as a weave is the peaking of the rise to close the feet. The knee will be much straighter to accomplish that - but not locked of course.

You have not answered my question I guess I have not explained it well. There is little differance between the wisk and natural turn as far as passing foot is concerned,since in the wisk we keep our center balanced over the second step as we place the third just behind. but in the wisk we use compression from the second step (push up) for a controlled rise,so why not push up on the left foot in the natural.

Yes, there is some rise from the left foot in the forward natural. But it is not so much a lifting, as a continuation of the almost ballistic patch established by a swing - the left leg doesn't have to lift very much, it mostly just has to follow through on an upward trend that has already been launched. Because you close your feet and the body essentially stops for an instant, the rise must be high enough to absorb all of the energy that was previously in the form of travel.

In a whisk you also create a swing from the end of step one, but instead of aiming to close stationary at the end of three, you aim flatter so that you will coast over step two (you should not be able to stop on step 2 when you dance it fully) and compress into step three.

Dave and others. i don't wish to appear contradictory. But the closing step is being done on an and count. Two (and )three. The three beats are split into six. See Woods Or Gleaves. So we have a count of 1 and 2 and 3 and. If you think about it you are using the half beat without realizing it. In between
1 2 3 we have a spaces which we use and is counted as 1 and 2 and 3 and. Even my old fashion book says rise at the end of one. Continue to rise on two ( and ) three,. The orchestra playing also fills in the spaces, imagine, what it would be like if they didn't. I am trying to draw attention to the space between 2 and 3. This is the (and) that the closing step is moving on. I'm sure this will bring a few words forth. But before you do, try it. Don't forget we are at our highest and the lowest on the beat 3 and. And we need time to do this. Happy dancing.

you are mistaken if you think the "and" in "Two (and )three" is literally the musical and. Not to say your timing is wrong, but the book does not use musical counting or speak of time units anywhere but in the beats per step line.

Annon. you are at the top on three and lower on three and. The whole beat is a foot position,the half beat is a body position. Dave