Suomyona.Yes a ball first then a heel. In the original posting by Onlooker it does mention this. Isn't this a wonderful site. Even if it makes people think. Some good will come from the comments we read.

Going over the sway in the natural turn 'waltz', I noticed that because my foot is turned out I was not getting my weight right over the ball of foot, also looking at Steven Hilliers N.T.. He starts diagonal to wall but by the time his weight is on his right foot he is facing the wall,trying this I found this gives a slight rotary turn which not only increases the swing but also gives more sway and makes the turn more enjoyable to dance. This also swing the left foot more under the body.

Dave. The tape you mentioned, is it the one where Steven Hillier had a white line drawn on the floor. If it is he delays his turn and only completes it on three. Richard Gleave is the same. John Wood is different. He is more like the technique book. Now we know there is a difference look for it in a IDSF competition. See if it can picked what todays top dancers are being taught and doing at this present time. Myself I follow John Wood. My resoning is that I am not able to do my Reverse Turn a mirror image of my Natural if I follow the fore mentioned. I don't think I would even try it. Something else to look for . Steven's way. What is the alignment for the fourth step. John's way . What is the alignment of his fourth step. Save looking I will say that the first one is down the LOD. The second diagnal to the wall with the LOD. The second is consistant with the stepping clear of the person coming foreward, which we now do most of the time and wasn't known about even just a few years ago. If you have an acute eye for detail these are the things to look for yourself. Can anybody tell me where Marcus Hilton his fourth step goes.

Don. If you are talking about the forth step of the natural turn in the waltz, I would be suprized to see anyone step back straight down the line of dance, except of cause John Wood as you say. The tape is Dance Basics No.3. where Linsey decribes how the Lady dances pivots and how the man eases of the power on his backward step ,while she provedes the power(drive) on her foreward step. They are not both working at the same time,she is responsable for her own timing when moving forward,but of cause this is the novice way of dancing.

Dave. I think you might have read this wrong. John Wood takes the fourth step of the spin turn clearing a path for his parner by taking the step more diag, to wall. He turns on step one and steps across the LOD on two. Richard Gleave in his video is on a straight line on two, and does not step across the LOD on step two. If you compare the two you will find that on three they are backing , one the LOD and the other backing diag to centre. Two different alignaments. John Wood is as is in the technique book. The other isn't. Not in my book anyway. But that is not saying that either way wont work.There is always a chance that neither would try to bend any couple away from their style of dancing if it is a success. I find I have more control if I simply turn my foot on one and step across the LOD on two. Then just bring my feet, which are both square to each other on three. Continuing to turn I would take step four on the diag. clearing a space for the lady who does step straight down the LOD and does not follow me on the diagonal. Then she does half a turn at the end of four on her right foot keeping the head hard left, and so on, into a Spin Turn. No wonder, as I read in a UK dance magazine, that ever since it was first introduce in 1922 there has been a continuous argument on how the first three should be done. So there you go. Nobody can say which is right and which is wrong and should not try to.

You are misreading the book if you think it implies that step four should be positioned closer to the wall than step three did. There is rotation on step four - an incomplete pivot action in the book, but not a change of direction that would imply any substantial movement of the foot closer to the wall. Many do dance that way, but it's not according to book technique.

Dave,
You are reading too many of Don's messages. You've started the FOREward walk spelling instead of the correct spelling which I'm sure you already know.

The correct placement of the fourth step is down the LOD, curved maybe a foot width to the wall, with the toe turned a bit more in so that while the weight arrives on the outside edge it goes immediately to the inside. When first doing this one must be carefull not to outstep the lady - the man is on the inside of the turn, and it's always easier to take a larger step backwards than forwards anyway.

There is no need to step ones entire body out of the way if proper CBM is used *before* the foot is placed. This turning of the body makes room for both bodies to pass sideways through the same space. Only if you are so unwise as to keep your body square to your feet must you step out of the path of your partner. Yes, many dancers today are not learning how to do CBM, and so end up doing this.

Also be careful in the analysis of Stephen's natural turn. Yes, his body is facing to wall as the first step is placed, but his nose and toes are still diag wall, because he is actually moving on a comparatively straight path - the turn of the body is not matched by a turn of the feet or change of direction, rather that happens over the second step. This is a result of doing the CBM at the proper time, and not delaying it as is currently in vogue with some of the IDSF couples who lack the flexibility to use their body and feet seperately.

"My resoning is that I am not able to do my Reverse Turn a mirror image of my Natural if I follow the fore mentioned. "

Unless you partner where square in front of you without offset, why on earth would you think that a revese turn should be the mirror image of a natural?

I demonstrate this to my students - I grab a volunteer and dance a reverse turn that is an exact mirror image of a natural, ending leftside outside to great laughter. Then I teach the proper differences in technique for reverse CBM and turn...

Suomynona. I dont't normaly dance a full natural turn but just the first half into a spin or turning lock or many other things. To dance a spin turn by stepping straight back down the line of dance as you explain "although correct" would make it imposable for me to do without finding myself to far into the center for the following reveres figure. It's good that you mention the body turning seperate to that of the feet as I was noticing that myself and trying to copy the Hiltons, I don't know if it is flexability or just having the patients to give the body time to do it's thing.