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Re: Step and push
Posted by Dave
12/2/2005  2:18:00 PM
2.Left leg drives body weight
3.Right foot action continues to PULL body weight forward ???
Re: Step and push
Posted by Don.
12/5/2005  10:59:00 PM
Dave. As Suomynona said . The front leg does not pull the moving leg. The front leg and the body arrive because of the drive of the standing leg which is now going to become the moving leg. Anybody who teaches otherwise should give up.
Re: Step and push
Posted by phil.samways
12/6/2005  4:08:00 AM
I practise walking backwards uphill. (don't worry - the local people understand!!)This makes it absolutely obvious that the standing leg does all the work by pushing the body forward (that's backward if you're going back). Walking backward uphill is good practise. Good exercise too
Re: Step and push
Posted by Dave
12/6/2005  9:50:00 AM
Well Phil I think you would have to push all the time to get up a hill but this is not dancing. Don I think you should purchase the latest book on advance ballroom dancing 2004 and judge for youself. The book has the approval of most of the top pro's of yesterday and today and was written by Geoffrey Hearn. I cannot repeat what is in the book but I will give you this one part sentence. The foot will flick down to being flat and it is this action that PULLS the body weight onto the right foot. I did not think that was correct untill I studied my walk and found that the push from the back foot only swings the body onto the heal, don't flick the foot down and you will lose momentum unless you step onto a flat foot which will bring your weight tipped over the ball of the foot.
Re: Step and push
Posted by suomynona
12/6/2005  11:44:00 AM
"The foot will flick down to being flat"

Yes

"and it is this action that PULLS the body weight onto the right foot."

No

This is the sign of a dancer who overswings their legs beyond their reach of their body's flight. They should be competing track and field, not ballroom.
Re: Step and push
Posted by Dave
12/6/2005  12:06:00 PM
This is the way it has been explained to me,that if you over reach you weight will be stuck in the middle of both feet and you will have to PULL(drag) your weight onto the front foot. I believe there may be a suttle difference between that and what Geoffrey Hearn is saying that us die hards are not willing to understand. Sorry for the bad spelling,if I had to look up every other word I would never complete a sentence.
Re: Step and push
Posted by Suomyonona
12/6/2005  1:42:00 PM
Yes, it is important to not depend on the action of the arriving heel to get onto the foot - your foot should be placed as a consequence of the movenet of your entire body, and if you do this arriving will require no pulling action at all.

However a rolling action of the heel will support the arrival more smoothly. Think of your foot as a wheel. You can have rear wheel drive with an undriven front wheel, and be in a lot better situation than a car with rear wheel drive and the front wheel replaced by a jack stand.
Re: Step and push
Posted by Dave
12/6/2005  2:09:00 PM
Do you not need a good heal lead in order to maximize the Step Swing principle, without a strong heal lead and snappping of the foot you may not get a good swing. I think we have to lower just enough to give us that heal lead any further bending of the knee is forward used for compression to thrust us forward. We also have to make sure that the first step is forward and not down so we can't just arrive over that foot without some means of control.
Re: Step and push
Posted by Suomynona
12/6/2005  9:28:00 PM
"I think we have to lower just enough to give us that heal lead any further bending of the knee is forward used for compression to thrust us forward."

It depends on the kind of rise desired. For waltz (pendulum swing) rise, you should bend the knee some more as you arrive over the foot and then gradually straighten it as you depart. But for leading a heel turn rise, you keep the leg straight as you arrive.

And in both cases it's critical that the heel roll promptly through to toe, with the heel starting to rise before the feet close.
Re: Step and push
Posted by phil.samways
12/7/2005  5:43:00 AM
Several points:
first, Dave, i don't think i said that walking backwards uphill is dancing. I just noticed that when doing it (it was a form of exercise originally) it was absolutely clear that the standing leg was pushing me. I think it's good practice for dancing.
Now about the foot flattening and 'pulling' the body forward. I tried dance swing-type movement staying on my heel (1-2-3 of natural turn)and there wasn't any real problem until my weight passed over the standing foot, where it would normally be flat and ready to push forward again (if necessary). It felt a little strange of course. Remember that evolution has resulted in a foot structure which expects it to become flat when walking forward, so anything else will inevitably seem strange.
But, as a scientist, i must invoke the laws of physics here, and the real test for whether the landing foot 'pulls' the body forward is to do it on ice. If the landing foot drags backward, for loss of grip, then it is trying to pull the body forward. It can't pull forward without the force of friction with the ground acting backwards.
Having danced many times on very slippery floors, but not having danced on ice (there's a thought for the skiing holiday!!) i must say i doubt it would happen.
i think this 'pulling' may be one of these thought or conceptual concepts (sorry for the long words - i have to get rid of them somewhere) rather than an actual physical reality

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