Thanks for your response, Dancer. I will not be going back to AM. Can you believe my last lesson there she actually told me I would be taking it with another teacher because they were the expert in Tango? I need the "expert" to teach me the basic steps in Tango? How about she hadn't learned it yet, that's more likely.

I danced with a very good amateur partner and had good coaches for about 4 years. She moved out of town, so now I am dancing Pro Am.

Pro Am dancing, for me, is much easier and you don't keep making silly mistakes over and over.

My strategy now is to find another amateur partner and dance the same loops or choreograhy. We would use my Pro Am teacher-partner as a coach.

However, if you are just starting, I think a guy needs a male coach to help with framing and visualization--then bring a female teacher or partner in after your skills have developed.

Great suggestion, Jim. I will definitely keep that in mind.

"I don't want to learn to lead 50 different women. I want to find 1 partner and improve technique with her."

i can see where your comeing from, but it is good to lead many differnt partners when you are frist learning. if you only dance with one person, you may start compensateing for something they are doing wrong and vice versa. by going to "dance parties" you get experence with differnt followers, and that helps you in the long run with your competitive partner. i know that my partner and i wouldnt be at the level we are at now if we didt go to the social dances. also it helps you learn floor craft. and there are always alot of people on the floor other than you in competitions, especally the lower levels. when you find a new studio, you should attend the "dance parties". not only will it help your leading and floor craft skills, but it will be fun and you just might meet a competitive partner there.

Learn to dance with many women. You will gain so much more lead ability that way. I am also sorry you have had such a bad time with your AM instructor. I am fortunate in my personal experience with AM, for the two female instructors I have had have been wonderful to learn from.

Learning to lead in partner dancing and learning to dance socially are two different things.

Social dancing exposes you to the (unfortunately) mediocre dancing that exists when people take a few beginner lessons and then endlessly grind into their muscle memory all the bad dancing that exists with the many.

Your best way to learn quality dance is to learn with one partner, and be taught by an instructor that can show both of you what to do and look for in dancing.

There is no advantage to knowing how to lead around people who do not know basic dance principles. And, remember, that many of these social dancers, that have 10 or even 20 years of 'experience', are simply doing walking step patterns that they 'figured out'. And, they actually think they are 'doing it right' since everyone they know around them does the same things.

Your muscle memory is what training is for. Do it with the right training and you will never have to look like the social dancers. And believe me, as you progress, you'll see that the social dancers look less and less qualified.

Proam is sometimes considered a good alternative to social dancing, but is not really a good way to learn how to dance, if only because you're not dancing with someone at your level and learning how to correct problems. A pro will certainly see your faults, but the only way to correct alignment, foot placement etc is by the teacher observing you against another body - they can't really tell what is going on when you are in their arms, altho they can give you an approximation of the feeling of dancing at a high level.

Talk to almost anyone who has progressed past beginner stages in amateur and they will tell you that the proam lady is usually the least competent (even compared to the social dancer) in actual dancing since they are usually 'pulled thru' by their pro (they always say that they 'dance better' with their pro, but of course that is an illusion, and is the addictive quality of proam dancing that makes these ladies come back again and again).

"Your best way to learn quality dance is to learn with one partner, and be taught by an instructor that can show both of you what to do and look for in dancing."

No, your best way to really learn is to do what you suggest, but then also dance with a community of others who know what they are doing.

I agree with you, Anon. My goal is to be a competitor with one partner and the best way is to find one as soon as possible and start getting the feel for eachother under the instruction of a professional teacher. I'm not in it for the social aspect and I don't go out to clubs to use my ballroom lessons on other women, since I am married.

I have a friend that recently divorced,
two kids, and has independent financial means. She is athletic, fit and has done lots of other athletic activities.

She has been taking ballroom lessons for about 1 year now. She selected a very seasoned Pro to dance Proam with and has another pro to stand over them and work on technique, styling, and choreography. She is doing something like what Barbara Moore (std proam champ) did with Igor. She take about 4 or 5 hours of lessons per day with two pros. The results are amazing. She looks good with her pro partner dancing their routines, but is somewhat lost dancing with anyone else (she is gradually getting better). However, Comp. dancing is dancing your technique, routines and picking choreography that will help make you look good.

Most Proam ladies don't even bother to dance much with anyone except their Proam partner. And they get really spoiled with good leads and the way their pro dances. A big shortcut for the lady.

The Proam male is much different. He still has to lead, count, floorcraft, and do lots of thinking. He won't look that much better dancing with a Pro partner. He will do much better getting a pro partner after he has developed good technique skills.

Where would ballroom dancing be without Proam? It pumps plenty of money into ballroom and keeps lots of good dancers and teachers in the profession. Most Eastern Europeon dancers quit at about age 25 and think that it is time to get serious about life--job, career, kids, and marriage.

An adult can take on ballroom as a serious hobby--like golf or bridge--and keep it up until a very old age.

One lesson per week from a good pro is enough for most dancers--and will get good results if it's kept up over the years.

<<two kids, and has independent financial means. She is athletic, fit and has done lots of other athletic activities.

She has been taking ballroom lessons for about 1 year now. She selected a very seasoned Pro to dance Proam with and has another pro to stand over them and work on technique, styling, and choreography. She is doing something like what Barbara Moore (std proam champ) did with Igor. She take about 4 or 5 hours of lessons per day with two pros. >>>

This is the classic lady proammer.

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I doubt that she is 'amazing', after only one year of work. The time spent is not always equal to resluts - it also takes time (a longer arc, so to speak) to make the movement really work

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and this is the classic proam lady problem. A teacher makes her look good but does not teach her how to partner dance. techniques like manipulating her with his arms, and the very fact that he is savvy enough to give her what she understands only, will contribute to this. The fact that she is somewhat lost points out the problem.

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that's a part of it. Competiton dancing is a contest (in am/am or pro/pro) when the couples go outside the 'routine' to make good dancing. You can't pick choreography in advance of, for instance, being cut off, or to make the dancing fit the musical changes. You are right that dancing your technique is a big part of it.

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And a detriment.

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And why is the male's part any different? And why is the only reason to do proam to look good? Where's the dance education?

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Agreed, proam is what 'pays the bills'.

An adult can take on ballroom as a serious hobby--like golf or bridge--and keep it up until a very old age.

One lesson per week from a good pro is enough for most dancers--and will get good results if it's kept up over the years.


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