This is a reply to Anon3.
If you read my posting, i definitely wasn't suggesting a leaning back posture. read it again.

Hi Anonymous
This happens automatically by engaging the deep abdominal muscles. They form a 'girdle' to protect the spine (and possibly other bits and pieces!). not sure what you mean by 'breaking'below the rib cage. Sagging is a sign of poor posture and can be caused by weak abdominals

Phil. Good Postureand Center. Why all this theorising and the rest of that clap trap that gets spoken about. Stand against a door. Get the whole of your back on the door. Bend the knees and feel your back in contact with the door moving up and down. That's no good. Do it again but this time on your toes. Where is the center of balance from the top to the bottom. Why wasn't the first example any good. Your balance would be over the wrong place. We are talking fractions here. Good Luck

Note that except in tango and a few similar positions in the foxtrot, you do not lower by bending the standing knee without also moving the torso so that it stays over the location of the standing knee.

Anomymous. If you have your back on a door and you are on your toes and you bend your knees, your knees will be slightly in front of your body. Your body which is over your heel which in turn is over your toes. Read that last sentence carefully. Having found your true center and get the feel of your back moving up or down the door. Try to get into that position on three in the Waltz lowering on 3 (and) with your back as above. You are now on balance. There is no other point of balance whilst on your toes lowering.
Foxtrot. Try the third step of the Feather and stop. Where is the center of balance now using your toe or heel as a point of reference just before lowering. One more comment. None of us get high enough on our toes. Most of us only get to the ball of the foot. That can hardly be called a toe can it..

I like the idea of using a door. Its obvious that by the amount of postings this has created some interest and is a problem. My contibution , if we want to be clinical, is with partner maybe an extended hold might be better. Each stand on a small block of wood about 2 inches thick just enought to fit the feet onto and do your rise and fall as on the third beat in the Waltz.. You will very quickly find out where your balance points are. As one gets better then get closer. Then we duplicate that feeling as we dance.

"Anomymous. If you have your back on a door and you are on your toes and you bend your knees, your knees will be slightly in front of your body. Your body which is over your heel which in turn is over your toes. Read that last sentence carefully. Having found your true center and get the feel of your back moving up or down the door. Try to get into that position on three in the Waltz lowering on 3 (and) with your back as above. You are now on balance. There is no other point of balance whilst on your toes lowering."

This is all well and good while your heels are off the floor. But once your standing heel touches down, the lowering continues in the knee. That will project the knee forward into your partner if you keep the body stationary. As a result, you must not keep the body stationary. Instead, you must being to move it forward so that it stays nearly over the advancing knee. Your door analogy is still good, but now you must saw the door off and cary it forward with you, so that it can still do its job of keeping your back aligned even as the whole package moves forward.

"Foxtrot. Try the third step of the Feather and stop. Where is the center of balance now using your toe or heel as a point of reference just before lowering. "

From the point your feet pass into the third step onwards, you are accelerating which means that you are not in balance at all.

"None of us get high enough on our toes."

In actuality, the opposite is true. In foxtrot, most dancers get far, far too high for their quantity of movement.

"Most of us only get to the ball of the foot. That can hardly be called a toe can it.."

Except in waltz rise, that is all that is desirable. High rise is for abosrbing the movement to stop the body and close the feet. Moderate rise for steps that continue movement with either a temporary closure as in a chasse or a passing of the feet as in foxtrot.

And even in waltz, the appropriate amount of rise is just that which absorbs the movement, and no more.

Something to keep in mind is that the true role for strong feet is not to create huge rise, but to permit projecting the body forward over the advancing knee. The stronger your foot, the further forward in it you can place your center of gravity before you loose balance and fall into the step. Everyone will fall into the step at some point, and must time their lowering to the desired initiation of the step. But those with stronger feet can take their weight further forward before doing so.

When you realize this, you come to understand that the true role of strong feet is not to create foot rise, but to increase the rise-fall difference (and thus the travel) by increasing the degree of knee lowering that can be accomplished without loosing balance or breaking body alignment - all by developing the ability to sustain balance extremely far forward in the foot.

Hi,
Any excersises in making feet stronger. I have a similar problem of falling off balanced on the rise and no on backwalks. I dont seem to have the strenght in my ankles to control the wt slowly in to the foot.

Anomymous. Just go to your writting, the second paragraph. Once your standing heel touches the down the lowering continues in the knee.I'm glad you mentioned this. You are under the impression that after the heel touches the floor the knees continue to bend. I will put it to you that as the heel touches the floor the knees have finished bending. Any further your bottom will start to stick out. Also you will be chasing that first beat there just isn't that much time. In other words do you lower the heel to the floor and than bend. Or do you bend and then lower. The first way will put you into a sitting position, don't you think. Go to that door and try it.
Concerning the Foxtrot. I can only repeat what is being taught at this time. That is there are two balance point. One is when the third step is in position, the other is as the rear foot comes into a neutral position. It has a name. Tringular Balance. It might be worth thinking about this one. The body does not stop moving, that's coming out of CBMP and going into CBM on the next step. But if your movement is body weight forward are you going to be able to control the CBMP and the CBM. and when exactly are you balancing.