"Anonymous. To me verticle is upright.To lean back or foreward is not verticle. "

Of course - which is exactly why I have repeatedly been saying that THE BODY MUST REMAIN VERTICAL. There is NO LEANING!

Yet you keep getting this unfounded idea that there would be.

Why?

"If I am climbing stairs I do have my top ahead of my knees and feet.. This is the position that you propose I should be in when going forward."

No, it is not.

I have repeatedly stated that the body must be over the knee. You just said top ahead of knee, which is not what I recommended at all. If you walk up stairs leaning forward, then the way you walk up stairs has no relation to how your should be dancing.

"I have asked many times if you can point me in the direction where I can see anybody of any note, either saying or demonstrating leaning forward away from the verticle."

I am not recommending leaning forward. I have repeatedly pointed you at the picture on this website, learning center:forward walk:2:extension, which you obviously have not yet been willing to invest two mouse clicks in viewing, or you would know that no leaning is involved.

"As the RF passes the LF we would accomplish a pronouced flexing. Hillier refers to this an exact 46 degrees flex of shin to floor angle before the heel of the RF will start to skim the floor. As the RF moves forward, first the ball of the RF will lighty skim the floor, untill it passes the LF where the heel will lightly skimming the floor to reach its maximum distance of Mid Stride."

Notice that this is saying that the knee is flexed forward of the feet before the moving foot passes. Given that the body must be over the knee, that has the body past the standing foot before the feet pass. Not what's in the book is it - but required to fully dancing in the modern manner.

"Now you tell me where it is written performed or spoken that the body will go ahead of the knee, foot."

In the passage you quoted... or if you had actually studied with that teacher in person, it would be far more obvious to you.

"And if you look at Modern you will see the tip of the toe on the floor, not as drastic as in Latin where the weight has gone beyond the foot. Which in Modern it doesn't."

Tip on the toe, yes, but extreme extension is only used for extreme travel. As for weight beyond the foot, you really need to stop quoting other people's lessons with the masters and go take some yourself... my dancing before I had such lessons was not a shadow of what has become since I started taking them.

"Sometimes we would have 28 bars a minute and sometimes 30 bars a minute.Which is ridiculous."

Happens all the time. But that's not what I meant by irregular - I meant that 1, 2, and 3 are often not the same length as each other.

"So why put your self in a position where anybody can put a disk on and listen for themselves."

You can put on a disk of stale mechanical music, or you can put on a disk of real music played by actual musicians. True, some musicians do things which make dancing quite difficult, but skilled ones can be expressive in rhythmic and tempo variation within the constraints of what can be danced to.

Anonymous. One thing that worries me is how do you get into the position you suggest without going to the tip of the toe of the rear foot which you have said enough times does not happen.

Anonymous. Now you are saying the weight must be over the knee. Of course it will be. What happens from there. Didn't you say the weight goes ahead of the now moving foot and we should catch our weight by falling.We are in free fall
Just your words when asked. We both agree that the centre of weight is over the standing leg
No, we don't, because it isn't so you replied.
So how do you propose to get the weight over the standing knee.
I can see by your last posting that you are gradually changing your tune. You have done a brilliant job of contadicting yourself. Don't forget that everything you have written is still there to be quoted.

"Anonymous. Now you are saying the weight must be over the knee."

"Now"? I've been saying it all along!

"What happens from there. Didn't you say the weight goes ahead of the now moving foot"

Indeed, if the weight is to be over the knee, then when the standing knee goes ahead of the standing foot, the weight will go ahead of it also.

For the umpteen millionth time, see learning center forward walk 2 extension - why are you deliberately avoiding looking at the picture which would make this impossible to misunderstand?

"and we should catch our weight by falling."

Yes, that's the usual way of it, when walking down the street as well as when dancing.

"We are in free fall"

Well, not in a walk. But yes in a lowering. In a walk we still have support from the standing foot but we are not balanced, so we fall "freely" but not at the full acceleration of free fall. Our body topples forward off the standing shin (BUT THE BODY ITSELF REMAINS VERTICAL FROM THE KNEES UP, OVER ALIGNED OVER THE KNEE. THERE IS NO LEANING. THERE IS _NO_ LEANING, so don't say I've recommended that you lean)

"We both agree that the centre of weight is over the standing leg"

No, because it isn't. Early int he lowering it will be, but as the knee goes forward of the standing toe, the weight must go forward of the standing toe as well. Not by leaning, but by moving - the upper body keeping vertical alignment throughout, even as the knee moves it all off the footprint of our standing foot.

"So how do you propose to get the weight over the standing knee."

It starts over the standing knee, then as your knee bends the weight moves forward at the same speed as your standing knee, so it stays over your standing knee. As your knee starts to straighten again, the body will continue but the movement of the knee itself will slow. If you take your mid-stride position (which is achievable, though not alway desireable) and backup the video one frame, you have the rear foot as the standing foot, the rear knee ahead of that, and the body now ahead of the rear knee.

"I can see by your last posting that you are gradually changing your tune."

Nope, haven't changed one bit. But you are making slightly different mistakes in reading it than you did before... perhaps you are starting to learn something?

"Don't forget that everything you have written is still there to be quoted."

Please quote the parts you are having trouble understanding then, and we'll work on your sources of your misunderstanding.

"Anonymous. One thing that worries me is how do you get into the position you suggest without going to the tip of the toe of the rear foot which you have said enough times does not happen."

I didn't say it does not happen, I said that if it happens or not depends on is necessary to be in proportion to the other dimensions of the movement.

You can, for example, take well executed small steps by moving your body weight from balance over on foot, through overlapping balance over two feet, to balance on the new foot. But only if you take small steps can this be natural. And if you were to dance that way (many older social dancers do it with a lot of grace) your feet would remain relatively flat. The full articulation of championship dancing would be comically out of proprotion in such dancing, just as trying to achieve championship movement without the corresponding range of articulation would be foolhardy.

Anonymous. The question was about going to the toe of the rear foot.

You wrote. If you were to dance that way( many older social dancers do it with a lot of grace ). Your feet would remain relitively flat.
I don't think we here are social dancers and in the main not older. I doubt if an older social dancer has ever got past the opening page. Reason there is nothing there for them. I will go on to say that type of dancer would never get the flat of the foot of the floor. There are a few senior dances in competition, I wonder if their coaches even care to put them on the right path.
You have inferrerd I think, by the above, that on a small step we should come off a flat rear foot.
Do you know that on a step to the side a trained dancer will come off a toe to a toe and at that time will have the weight equally divided.. 4th 5th step of a Reverse Turn Foxtrot is a good example.

"You wrote. If you were to dance that way( many older social dancers do it with a lot of grace ). Your feet would remain relitively flat.
I don't think we here are social dancers and in the main not older. I doubt if an older social dancer has ever got past the opening page. Reason there is nothing there for them."

Anna, the key concept here is "all things in proportion".

Good dancing does not have a defined size. It does not even have constant details, instead it is a set of ideas, or rules for what things must go together. If you do A, you must also do B - that kind of thing. These underlying ideas are the same for skilled if older social dancers, as they are for top competitors - but of course they imply different things that should be done in each case!

To take something specific, such as how much articulation of the back foot should occurs as you leave it - that rather obviously depends on the amount of movement to be achieved. You may have something specific in mind, and it may not be a bad starting point for the needs of say, intermediate competition. Or as an exercise for what championship competition might require. The point is that what you have in mind is not an absolute, because the sources you read it in do not know how big you will be dancing. Instead, it is a starting point. Or if you read more carefully (included those sections of the book that are written for older social dancers) you can see that the main subject is not a bunch of details - trivia to be memorized, but rather the guiding ideas that let you figure out what details would be necessary of any type and size of movement.

All things in proportion...

"Do you know that on a step to the side a trained dancer will come off a toe to a toe and at that time will have the weight equally divided.. 4th 5th step of a Reverse Turn Foxtrot is a good example."

That step is much more ball than toe... Remember that the lady will need to stay low enough that she can get her heel down as her body arrives over her foot, at which point she will be in what is effectively a no-foot-rise situation as she dancers her weight backwards off that heel. I'm sure you will not point out that it doesn't say "NFR" there - but if you understand the figure, you would know that while the arrival is onto the ball of foot (hence "NFR" would be meaningless" the departure is backwards from TH, which requires NFR. Of course that is techincally part of the next step, so it wouldn't be mentioned.

Anon is not rude (get the spelling
----
right) anyway i read this and i like it, i think she shows talent and she is talented, so ANON keep up the great work gurl ur excelent

Ur pethetic ANON IS ROOD SO GET LOST LOSER