"So for example, a natural turn would be a good start for a routine, and many top dancers do this.But if you follow the natural turn (2 bars)with a link step(1 bar) you're on this weak bar 4 for the start of the reverse turn. So this wouldn't be the best choreography in the world, but it would still be good, and only a championship grade dancer would be too concerned about it."

Note that this means that you can't use both natural and reverse figures and have the man going forward on the strong measures in both cases, unless you use changes that have 2 or 4 steps per bar, rather than the usual 1 or 3.

So for example, sticking only to traditional figures, the viennese waltz cannot have the man going forward on both sides on the strong measure.

In slow waltz, you would need to use some chasses or drag hesitation type groupings to switch from man's right foot forward on strong measures to man's left foot forward on strong measures.

Is it not marvellouse. Untill very recently only two people mentioned phrasing in all of the history of this site. Now what do we have. We have people writting in who only a very short time ago didn't even know what eight bar phrasing was. This is good that they can now go to there teachers and say. This routine does not fit the music.
Just something about the V Waltz. It is impossible to dance the V. Waltz in phrase fom a Natural to a Reverse. The steps that are allowed are limited. The latest adition to the V. Waltz are Pivots , which does nothing for the phrasing. This is all about the International style.
If you may of wondered why in a International competition you might see a couple taking two bars of music on a Lung. Oversway. Throwaway Contra Check. and other couples holding for extra beats. Now we know why. If you thought they are having a bit of a rest, they are not.
Then there is always the Tango. This one unless you know, is easy to go of Rhythm over the first few steps. Who said dancing was easy.

Ah quickstep, the eight bar phrases are not exactly a new concept to anyone here.

But the question which you still haven't answered is which figures need to go in certain places in the phrase, and why.

Awareness of the phrasing is great - but don't kid yourself that you are doing much based on it, until you can explain why the figures you are choosing for specific parts of the phrase belong there.

It's not enough that you know where you are in the phrase - you need to show that awareness in a way that isn't just theoretical, but actually visible to someone who can't read your mind.

And so far, the natural turn seems to be your only way of doing that???

So Tell me. I hope we all keep in time. Being in time as well as being in rhythm and also in phrase are all related. We also do know that the first bar of music is heavy, the second bar is light the third bar is heavy but not as heavy as the first and the fourth bar which is light is able to tell us that the heavy bar is coming up.
What more do you need to know. We dont want to be doing the first three steps of a Reverse or a Natural on a weak bar of music. You must also be able to hear that reasounding sound at the beginning of a phrase. And also we dont want to, after the Reverse and whatever, to find ourselves for instance doing a Whisk and Chasse on the 6th and 7th bar of music. Your best bet is to compose a simple routine yourself and see if you can get it to fit the music.Then come back and put it on. I'm sure you will get a few other people who will tell you if you are right or wrong. At the moment you seem relutant to try which shows a lack of confidance.

Quickstep, as this is your theory it is up to you to explain. I have my own ideas, but I want to see yours.

Actually, I suspect you don't have the answers.

You mentioned that you don't want to dance the first half of either a reverse or a natural figure on a weak beat. Are you so sure about that? Most of the common ways to get between them will cause one or the other to be on the weak beat, as indeed the viennese waltz amply demonstrates.

Now of course you could "fix" that little group you love to complain about simply by putting a double reverse spin before the reverse turn.

But perhaps it is only broken in your mind. Is it really the figures that have to go at a certain point in the music? Or is it that you have to be dancing in a way that says "this is the beginning of a new phrase" when a new phrase starts? And of course, as a dancer, which is to say an artist, you should have many ways to say that...

Yes, dancing the natural turn at the start of the phrase is a good solution. But it is only ONE solution. Time to start thinking of the other solutions...

So Tell Me. This is. I repeat this is not my theory. You can just as easily check. Or find a teacher who knows what they are doing. You will find that this is the way a competition dancer would be taught. Lets go to the Foxtrot. Would you dance your Feather Step as 3412. If not why not.Doesn 't even look right on paper does it. Would you put the cart before the horse.Why would anybody dance a bar of music back to front. This what you do. If you didn't you would n't be asking would you.
You mentioned the V. Waltz and you obviously know it goes out of phrase That cannot be compared to a Waltz simply because the steps are not avalable to bring it back into rhythm.
Back to the Waltz. It would be very beginnerish to dance into a Reverse Turn unless the Double Reverse Spin was used. Why not try a Fallaway and Slip Pivot into a Reverse movement.A skilled dancer doesn't put themselves into a situation where they will be on an off beat.
So if you must start off with a Natural movement and you wish to go into a Reverse why not an Open Impetus. Running Weave Side Locks and there you are. Hasn't it ever dawned on you that you rarely see basic steps danced as most of us have been taught. You must have asked yourself that question at some time. Now you know. I think this is enough on this subject.Till next Time.

Quickstep
I think this a very good answer. Some figures have "hesitations" too to avoid being on the wrong foot for a following figure.
To "so tell me" if you have your own ideas, would you please share them with us? Instead of testing us.

Phil. If you have danced the Running Weave and Two side Locks. If you need to you can make it take one bar of music instead of two. Normaly the timing from Promenade would be 1 and 2 3. 1 2 and 3 and. For some reason we need to change the timing so double up on the syncopations and make it fit one bar of Waltz. When a person comes into contact with these top profile teachers it really is an eye opener. My thoughts at first was why are we doing things with such a difficult timing. I was used used to Basic timing and steps. Run your thoughts through this one in the Quickstep. We arrive feet together on beats 3 4 we stand for 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and step back on the 8th beat for a quick. I of course wanted to do 1 2 3 and step back on the 4th beat. Then I found out, or was rather told, that my way will not fit the music. I hope I have explained this satisfactorily. But believe me it doesn't stop there. I wonder what happend to the old ssqqs.
I 'll continue a bit. This is all related. You mentioned a Hesitation like a Drag Hesitation. There has to be a reason why. I would expect it to be a lead into something exciting and not just used it for the sake of using it. Apply this also to an Open Telemark otherwise a judge is going to say .Well lets have it, wheres the rest. The Open Telemark can also be used for an exit. By that I mean after doing a nice group get away out of it and leave the judge looking at that nice picture you created. Don't hang around you'll spoil the effect.hope this helps. Good luck

"Phil. If you have danced the Running Weave and Two side Locks. If you need to you can make it take one bar of music instead of two. Normaly the timing from Promenade would be 1 and 2 3. 1 2 and 3 and. For some reason we need to change the timing so double up on the syncopations and make it fit one bar of Waltz."

You are going to take NINE steps in the 3 beats of one measure?

And still manage to make it look like waltz?

I 've never had to count the steps or beats. It's not going to look like a Running Weave at that speed. Just make sure your last step is a cross up behind. You will need to be higher on the toes and the steps obviously very small. Do it a second time and the timing will probably be different. If we are competition dancers as long as it looks OK we can do it. Actually to me it feels something like a Vine except there is no step in front.Who knows how the end will be. If its needed we could finish 8 a or a 8 just make sure the LF is free. Does a run around after a Hinge look like a Waltz. Do pivots look like a Waltz remembering we do them in every other dance which is not a Waltz. Enough said.