Thankyou-- we aim to please

There's a difference between the beginning and end points of any particular pattern, and how you begin the entire dance.

When beginning a dance, the leader can decide to do just about anything he wants -- or at least, anything he is capable of leading. It's quite easy to lead the lady to start on any particular foot by taking position and shifting weight sideways to one foot or the other. From there it's just a matter of choosing a direction.

Most American schools are in the habit of teaching Cha Cha as starting LF side for man, but the choice to do so has no particular rhyme nor reason. It's simply an accepted convention. I personally prefer to start RF side or forward myself, but sometimes I mix it up. I think teaching pointless conventions such as "Always start on this foot and in this direction" is a bad idea because it robs the student of a perfectly good opportunity to practice leading or following.

But again, this has nothing to do with where any particular pattern begins. Most rudimantary Cha Cha patterns, including the Cha Cha Basic, have two symmetrical halves. Put the two halves together, and you have a repeatable, looping pattern. As with any looping pattern, you can think of almost any point as the starting point, because it always loops back again. So whether you think of the Cha Cha basic as "Forward rock, cha cha cha, back rock, cha cha cha" or "Back rock, cha cha cha, forward rock, cha cha cha", it makes no difference... It's all the same loop.

As to why I decided to begin the description of the pattern on the man's RF instead of his LF like most other American syllabi, there are two main reasons:

(1) Conceptually, I think most people think of the Cha Cha pattern as rock step, cha cha cha. If such a pattern starts with the man's LF, then his first action is his forward rock. This is how it's described in the Int'l syllabus, and it's how I think it should be described in the American syllabus as well. The RF side is not actually part of the pattern itself; It is merely a "prep step", which can be thought of as either the last step of the previous pattern, or a possibility for the first step of the dance (assuming you start on count 1).

(2) Quite a few of the fundamental Cha Cha patterns are more commonly started with the man's LF rock. Take the basic Crossover Break. It's quite awkward and somewhat difficult to start in a closed hold and begin the pattern to the man's left (his RF rock). Almost everybody therefore dances the first Crossover to the man's right (his LF rock), when starting from a closed hold.

The "other guys", feeling the need to describe every pattern as starting side on man's LF, force themselves to commence the pattern with half a Basic. In so doing, they are describing the half-Basic as an integral and necessary part of the Crossover, as if you're never "allowed" to dance a Crossover without first doing a half-Basic.

In keeping with the social and improvisational spirit of American style, our philosophy in building our syllabus has been to make it as component-oriented as possible, to strip away the unnecessary garbage and describe the patterns in their purest form. From there we try to list examples of what might come before or after a pattern (eg you can do a half-Basic before a Crossover, but you can also do B,C,D or E). Then we show an assortment of amalgamations involving such ideas.

To this end, we've eliminated the part of the Crossover that's not actually a Crossover -- the half-Basic. The pattern truly begins with the man's LF forward in side by side position. Add a prep step to show how it links to the previous pattern (or how you could start the dance), and it begins with the man's RF side.

I hope all this makes sense. If not, you can think of the start and end points of the pattern in whatever way you feel comfortable. Just take the patterns in our syllabus and reverse the order of the measures. Voila! Everything now starts on the man's LF side.

As for starting the whole dance, just remember: Don't get stuck in "Always". Unless, of course, you're thinking "Always try something new." Now go ahead and take your partner onto the floor and without telling her what's coming, spin her in to shadow position and start dancing the Sweetheart... starting with your LF forward!

Regards,
Jonathan

I suspect that one of the reasons American style often includes the sideways "prep step" at the beginning is because it is a step on the 1 beat of the music. Since the 1 is usually easiest to hear and most familiar to start on, it gives beginners help getting started and gets them doing the rock step properly on 2.

Actually -- it has nothing to do with that-- it is correctly following the path of the call and response ( read the other posts, there are many )

I thought you said that the call and response dictated that the man begin by stepping back. I was talking about the side prep step on 1 to begin American cha cha.

Apology-- i should have said the " break " is backwards-- and yes -- prep cha, with left foot side ( as in Bolero and mambo )

The explanation for this one is much simpler than it was for Cha Cha.

In Int'l Samba, there isn't a single basic movement. There are actually four: Natural, Reverse, Side, and Progressive. The one you learned first is the Reverse. That's because in most American style syllabi, there is only one basic movement, and that is the Reverse (usually just called the "Basic", or the "Box").

You may have been confused because in Int'l style, we usually list the four basics starting with the Natural, then the Reverse. But that's only because something has to come first, and it's only natural that it be the Natural. But as basics go, they're all equal, so you can just as easily think of the Reverse as being the basic action of Samba.

In American style schools, they tend to teach the Reverse as the basic basic, and then only later, if ever, do they add a Natural. This is true of many dances, not just Samba. Think of the Left Box in Waltz, Viennese, Foxtrot, etc. Int'l schools tend to teach the Natural first, or both together. One learns very early how to turn to both directions in all dances.

We don't have an American Samba syllabus on our website yet, but if I ever get around to adding one, rest assured it will list the Reverse as the basic step.

Regards,
Jonathan

Jonathan, thank you so much for explaining my confusion away! I understand so much more now. I've taken lessons from several teachers, and danced with various partners, encountering the different approaches to the basics. No one explained it, other than to say "This is the way I teach it." I'm glad to learn there's no right camp or wrong camp on this. I understand that in some cases, such as the cha cha, how one starts may result in a better feel for the rhythm of the dance, or work better for different patterns...VERY HELPFUL explanation!!! The best part is...He leads, I follow!

Hi to All,
To add to this debate on whether to start the dance either by stepping to the side, forward or backward, brought to my mind one of my early lessons in the Rumba at the beginning of the 60's. My teacher/coach was Jack Dixon who lived and taught in Bradford, Yorkshire, UK. Jack said to me to understand the Rumba better is to think of the dance as a 'Call and Response' danced by the man and lady. The man steps forward to the lady (the Call) she rejects the man by pushing him away (the Response) man rocks back. He then steps to the side and pauses which gives him time to think 'Do I have a chance here! he decides not! She senses his hesitation and has the man moves back she goes after him (the Call). He then thinks he has a chance and once again he goes after the lady, (the Response) only to find he is rejected once more! This Call and Response works well with the Hockey Stick. As lady, steps 1-3 the lady teases the man then over steps 4 to 6 moves away from him.

Actually -- its the reverse of that-- that symmetry, was put in place by Pierre .
if one checks the roots of Latin, its clearly defined in the folk dances , The man beckons to the lady-- she ignores him-- as she walks away, he follows her .

I was also trained by one of the greats ( laird ) long before you-- but-- when moving to the states, I gradually began to see, where the " english " had been led down the wrong path .
having re structured my " latin ", working and learning from latinos in the late fifties,, I soon realised , that the music should be dictating my responses thru the clave rhythms .
Have discussed this topic, with several prominent musicians in the latin genre .
As per usual , we( the englsh )have taken a "native " rhythm and dance, and anglicised it to fit our social and competitive needs ( Bolero DIDNT need to be re arranged into Rumba )