V. Waltz and dizzyness. The smaller the room, the more likelhood of becoming dizzy.In our Dancing with the Stars after the first two series they soon dropped the V. Waltz. In a smaller place it was causing real sickness problems.
The arguement is that we still have a full turn over the six steps regardless of whether it is done right or wrong as far as alignements are concerned. The fact remains , if I had to I could squeeze 8 bars on one side of a very small room. I believe I would become dizzy. Spread the 8 bars out all the way around and I will not get dizzy. Who doesn't agree.

I doubt it. Here's an article I suggest you read to understand the physiological reasons behind the sensation of dizziness that comes from continuous spinning:

http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/dizzy.asp

This explains the reason you feel like you're still spinning for a few moments after you've stopped. (For more exhaustive explanations, see more links below).

In my research I was unable to find any studies relating dizziness to the size of a room. My own personal research -- e.g. spinning 10 times in 5 seconds in my closet, then doing likewise outdoors -- suggested that there's absolutely no such relationship. Perhaps more people would like to try and see for themselves. In the meantime, I'll remain extremely skeptical.

But although there's not likely any relationship between true dizziness -- that sensation that you're still spinning even after you've stopped -- and room size, that doesn't mean that you can't get nauseous from your perception of your visual surroundings. Such nausea would be a result of motion sickness, which is caused by the difference between "visually perceived movement and the vestibular system's sense of movement". (quoting wikipedia). So if you're looking to draw room size into the equation, you must look for a link between room size and motion sickness, not room size and dizziness.

This is bigger than my puny little brain cares to explore in depth right now, but as far as motion sickness is concerned, my best educated guess is that it has much less to do with the size of the room as it does with the complexity of the surroundings in general. In other words, the more objects and contrast your have in your sight to give your eyes the sense of motion, the more likely you are to feel woozy after continuous spinning. So, for example, you would be much better off spinning in a small room with four white walls, a pale, uniform dance floor, and flat lighting than you would be in a large dance hall with balconies, chandeliers, elaborate lighting, a floor with a complex design, and audience and dancers all around. All things being equal, I don't see how having the walls closer to you necessarily translates to a perception of more movement, so perhaps someone would like to explain that to me. Even so, larger rooms tend to be more complex, so I think that would tend to negate any minor increase a smaller room would tend to contribute to the perception of movement, if there is one.

More interesting articles I have found relating to dizziness after spinning:

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentoring/project_ideas/HumBeh_p025.shtml

http://ask.yahoo.com/20061116.html

http://stason.org/TULARC/sports/recreational-figure-skating/6-2-9-1-about-dizziness.html

And my absolute favorite:
http://web.mit.edu/skatingclub/old-www-Sep05/newsletters/00jun.pdf

Also, here's the wikipedia article on motion sickness:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness

Enjoy!

Regards,
Jonathan Atkinson

Thanks everyone for their tips, suggestions, etc, especially Jonathan. :) I've been trying out some of these suggestions and a few help a little. I'll keep going.

And yes, I've only a small room to practice in; my bedroom. There are a ton of things (furniture) in the way (I share my room with my two sisters, so there are beds and cupboards and stuff). I can only do two turns each time down the center of the room

Think straight lines.

In 6 steps of a reverse or natural aim to travel 6 feet down the room as you practice.

If you're too compact then you are spinning on the spot. Spinning leads to dizziness.

I never have a problem with dizziness because I'm moving from point A to B rather than staying on point A.

A lot of ballroom is an illusion. It looks like it's turning but it's really a series of straight lines with swivels and pivots at the ends of steps.

OB

O.B. -- You're forgetting that no matter how much or little you travel, you're still turning one full turn over 6 beats. That was the whole point of my original post.

Actually, it's unclear whether traveling makes it better or worse. In the MIT study I mentioned earlier (see link above), they concluded that dizziness would diminish somewhat on a perfect, stationary axis. The more wobbly the axis, or the more the head moved away from the axis, the more it increased the dizziness. Certainly the scallopy movement of our head in a perfect, traveling Viennese Waltz, smooth as it may look to someone watching, is way more erratic to the motion of the liquid of the inner ear that a perfect spot rotation. And since the liquid is being spun around at exactly the same speed whether you travel or not, the logical conclusion is that the least dizzifying way to turn is exactly on the spot.

Of course, two partners cannot turn exactly on the spot at the same time in dance position. Only one partner's head can be the center axis of the turn at any given time. And since Viennese Waltz is supposed to travel, anyway, the point is moot... Neither partner will ever rotate in a single, stationary axis. The question is really whether the difference in the amount a beginner travels vs the amount an experienced dancer travels makes a difference to the amount of dizziness. I say no. Either way, the total amount of rotation is the same. And either way, the heads of both partners are moving around, not on, a traveling axis. To the inner ear, it's horribly erratic. It's enough to make you wanna puke just thinking about it.

Regards,
Jonathan

Looking at my video on the V. Waltz by one of the worlds former best. The head stays in one position in relation to the body on the Natural Turns. It does not move about. The reason, the man in this instance, appears to be looking back down the LOD on the second half of the Natural is simply because of the position the body is. Which is first facing the centre. then the diagonal and then the LOD. The head staying to the left and turning only with the body. Also let us not forget that the sixth step is completely flat.
In he Reverse Turn the head again stays left.

The change was was very quick and that convinced me the teacher was right. We danced a minute for the teacher and I was getting very dizzy. He spent some time working on the technique with us and than had us dance a series of turns. I did not get the least bit dizzy and as long as we move during the turns, dizziness has not been a problem.

If you move more you are changing the forces your brain is experiencing, that has a bearing on getting dizzy. Moving a small amount and turning, is like the kids thing of holding hands and spining around. That motion forces your brain towards the back of your head and gets you dizzy. Turning without moving, also seems not to cause dizziness as much as turning and moving a small amount.

Here we are quoting articles and theorizing on the V Waltz and dizzyness. Wouldn't it be far easier if we try the expanded and the none expanded for ourselves. And then come back and tell us the results. Also you can keep those Fleckerl's as far as I am concerned. If your wish is to dance at Blackpool there is no V. Waltz so you can shove it.

Jonathon,

Not arguing with you.

Just commenting from my own experience.

If I spin tightly I definitely suffer from dizziness.

In Viennese never.

Perhaps it's a fixation thing for me. I'm not going to say definitively here as I'd need to analyze in practice instead of in front of a computer but when I think about it my gaze is not a continuous turn (as in spinning). In the Viennese it seems to me that what is happening is that I'm looking to one specific point in the room (in each group of three)then I fixate elsewhere on the next group.

That seems to be what we do in normal movement. Sitting here in front of the computer I'm fixating on one corner and switching to the next I don't seem to overly process the image in between as I move my eyes. But I also notice that my eyes blink as I do this.

Turning my head without blinking creates the blur I associate with dizziness.

This might be the clue: cognitively locking the gaze periodically such as consciously looking at one corner then the next, etc. instead of a continual blurring action. Zipping in and out of conciousness as it were.

OB