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+ View Older Messages

Re: The Laird Technique
Posted by SocialDancer
3/22/2008  4:41:00 AM
Len Scrivener's book was published in 1951, ten years before Wally's, but that is irrelevant.

In your first post you said "there is a hip movement to the ladies right on 4 1 which will without trying, turn her an 1/8 of a turn to her left". That makes the turn part of step 3 not step 4.

You later say "Where did you get turning too early from. How much later than beat one can it be." Try beat 2.

In your latest post, "Do they actually turn at the end of step 3 which is the beginning of step 4 or do they turn at the end of step 4." The end of step 3 comes before the beginning of step 4 although admittedly not by much, but I see you now say that the turn happens directly after step 3. This would tie in with the man's turn which is also on step 4 and not pre-empted by turn at the end of step 3.

The original question was why was the lady's 1/8 turn not described as a fwd walk turning. As I said earlier, the most recent manuals don't seem to use the term, but the ISTD (1998) using their study alignment as reference make the turn later in step 4, very similar to a fwd walk turning,
"4 (LF fwd) against LOD to end DW against LOD"

And yes, I do see it danced and demonstrated that way.
Re: The Laird Technique
Posted by Serendipidy
3/22/2008  1:55:00 PM
SocialDancer. The more you go into this the more intersting it becomes. If step 4 is straight down the floor for the lady. Step four for the man is going in the opposite direction. On that step the man has an 1/8 of a turn to his right, the turn would have to be at the beginning of the step. It is a Back Basic. All of this makes for a very untidy movement unless the man is tall and with a very long arm. Don't you think.
I have been searching for a tape I have somewhere by Alen and Hazel Fletcher. On it they show among other things the Hockey Stick in detail. There's is the one I always followed.
I don't want to appear contradictory but there is only one book printed June 85 that has Len Scrivener's name on it.It was compiled from his notes after he passed away called, Just One Idea.. Terence or luv2dance might be able to shed some light on whether Len was into the Latin style.
Re: The Laird Technique
Posted by SocialDancer
3/22/2008  4:01:00 PM
The lady's step 4 starts down the floor then turns to DW against, by which time the man has stepped back DC, so she is straight in front of him. She then continues moving DW against, first forward then backward as the man follows her. It should not be a problem as they are not miles apart, closer than when in fan position.

I stand corrected on Len Scrivener. I must admit I was surprised when I found his name on the cover when looking through my library for descriptions of the hockey stick, and it was rather late at night. In fact the book "The Complete Ballroom Dancer" was edited by Len, who also wrote the ballroom section. The Latin section was prepared by "Pierre" who is credited with introducing the Cuban style of Rumba, and the 2,3,4-1 count into the UK.
Re: The Laird Technique
Posted by Serendipidy
3/23/2008  3:04:00 PM
SocialDancer. I think you will find if you follow the man's steps through, and if we use alignments which in the Rumba there are none, but just to make it easier to follow. The man on at the end of step 3 has his feet together and is backing the centre. If he is the other way around he is backing the wall. Which ever way you are he now has 1/8 of a turn to the right which puts him on a diagnal line. The lady at the same time on the same step has an 1/8 of a turn to the left and she is going forward. If we both get into our positions without holding, having completed step 4. Now try to join hands as they should be as if we didn't let go. I think it makes for an ugly step. Maybe that's why the Professional don't do Hockey Stick Turns in their demonstrations.
Re: The Laird Technique
Posted by anonymous56
3/20/2008  9:23:00 AM
Step 4 of the hocky stick isn't technically a fwd walk tng. Fwd walk tng is a technical term to describe the action used when turn occurs after initial foot placement, such as in step 5 of the ladys hockystick. step 4 is different this step is actually placed 1/8 to the left relative to the previous step.
Re: The Laird Technique
Posted by anonymous56
3/22/2008  4:51:00 PM
the new istd and laird latin do seem to differ in the action used on step 4. the istd is a fwd walk tng, the laird technique uses a different action.

to me it seems odd to have a fwd walk tng when using the LF and tng to L.

this is because the turn will tend to move the left hip back not forwards and therefore the delayed turn of a fwd walk tng will tend to oppose to the normal hip action when moving fwds. the alternative avoids this because the turn and the hip action do not coincide.

i cannot think of any other examples of a fwd walk tng L on LF (or R on RF).
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