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+ View Older Messages

Re: Balance
Posted by phil.samways
6/24/2008  9:56:00 AM
My views would differ from Eric. Dancing on your own (at least as a man) is much easier than dancing with your partner. A man should have pretty well perfect balance on his own, since he has full control over all his movements and knows exactly what's coming next. With a partner, there is a balance of the couple. This is much more difficult to achieve unless there is perfect harmony between them and the man's lead is perfect. Bascially your partner will influence everything (this applies to man or woman)including your balance.
Dancing alone is a good idea for working on timing and rhythm, some technical things, like use of the feet, shaping and sway. But all this will be modified when your partner is with you.
On Eric's other point - why do we so rarely see ladies dancing on their own?
Re: Balance
Posted by jofjonesboro
6/24/2008  10:09:00 AM
Phil, with all due respect, there is no such thing as "the balance of the couple."

Each partner is responsible for his or her own balance, repardless of the dance or the figure. There should be no point at which one partner is supporting the other.

If your steps when dancing alone differ greatly from those when dancing with your partner then you're doing something incorrectly.

jj
Re: Balance
Posted by kaiara
6/24/2008  10:31:00 AM
I found that a DVD on technique basics that demonstrated balanced movement really has been a help to me.

I also joined a gym and told the trainer what muscles I found tired too quickly dancing. So now I work my weakest areas carefully and systematically to be better.

A third thing is already mentioned: dance alone.

I break from housework to do just a minute or two of attempting basic steps with perfect balance and form. When driving, if I stop for a stretch, I take a minute to do a basic step with perfect balance and form. When I study, I take breaks, and I attempt basic steps with perfect balance and form....

I probably don't get more than 30 minutes in a day but it has made a difference that my instructor noticed!

I'm just a beginner and my hubby and I hope to become good at what steps we know. It is fun!
Re: Balance
Posted by dheun
6/24/2008  1:01:00 PM
I'm inclined to agree with parts of what both Phil and jj are saying here. I would say for sure that it is easier to practice steps alone to smooth out technique, timing and balance. There may not be a true "balance of the couple," but there is a huge difference between practicing alone and with a partner. It's not so much balance as it is fluidity and moving as one. That feeling takes a lot of time and practice. However, it is important for the man to practice alone because to be able to lead, the steps and sequences should be second-nature. I, too, find that my wife doesn't particularly find it enjoyable to practice on her own. Too often, she just says she is going to follow my lead anyway, but I can tell when she hasn't practiced much, we kind of hesitate or get "stuck" in a rigid mode, rather than moving smoothly. Observers will still say we looked good after a routine or a social dance, but I can tell when it wasn't quite right.
Re: Balance
Posted by Serendipidy
6/24/2008  8:00:00 PM
Phil. Think about it. If the wear on the sole of your shoes or shoe is on the outside then what angle is your foot in relation to the floor. Take step two of a Natural Turn in the Waltz, or step two of a Reverse Turn. How about the first step of any of the above. Go to the outside of the sole of your shoe. What a disgusting mess. And your knees also would be out.
Re: Balance
Posted by Phil
6/25/2008  8:21:00 AM
Phil, I agree that there are aspects of ballroom that must be done with a partner. However, in my limited experience (4 years) with ballroom, and much greater experience with athleticism, I have to say that I still believe that balance is an individual issue.

For the ladies in particular, how many of you spend a good deal of time walking backwards (when not dancing!!!)? When we move, we have our best balance in the things we are familiar with. Trying to learn dance steps and figuring out how to step backwards properly at the same time (while in heels you are not used to) is likely to cause balance issues. The best way to overcome these issues is to break the problem up and develop proficiency in the parts, then start to put them together.

I'm not suggesting that the lady should not continue to dance with her partner, only that she may benefit from working on her own, where she can isolate what is causing her personal balance problem. If she finds that she doesn't have a balance problem at all when working alone, then she has a partnership issue.

In that case, I'd guess it's more likely to be the gentleman's leading technique than any real balance issue.

As far as balance as a pair, I must completely disagree. Each individual must keep their own center. The lady cannot react to her partners lead if she is relying on him to stay vertical.
Re: Balance
Posted by Polished
6/25/2008  6:38:00 PM
Phil. There is a danger dancing solo. That is unless we are aware that we cannot tread into the space occupied by a partner. They have to rotate out of our path . That doesn't mean they leave the building. It means that if we stretch our arms out to shoulder height and turn the whole of our side a 1/4 of a turn to the right, our right side hasn't left the building, neither has our partner, but they are no longer standing in the spot on the ballroom floor we need to move into. When this was being discussed in the studio one bright young lady brought with her her little sisters Teddy Bear and sat it on her hip. That Teddy Bear rotated a 1/4 1/2 and Full turns and never once left the hip it was sitting on. The rest of us used our shoe bags. I thought this might be worth mentioning.
Re: Balance
Posted by Iluv2Dance
6/26/2008  12:28:00 AM
Don,
What's with the new name, 'Polished'?
Re: Balance
Posted by phil.samways
6/26/2008  8:54:00 AM
First, can i just point out something - phil and phil samways are two different people.
Here are my thoughts on what i mean by the 'balance of the couple'
Let's take viennese waltz. Try dancing this on your own along a line on the floor. You centre of gravity will stay over the line. If you dance it with your partner, the person moving forward in a natural turn will have to move to the left of the line (and your partner to the right). You can't move with your centre over the line because this would make life impossible for your partner. If the man and lady were equal in size and weight, they would both move equally to the left and right, and the point of contact of the couple (approximately) would move in a straight line. The man's (and lady's) movements have to be different from their movements when dancing on their own.
Another example: fallaway reverse turn. Assume the lady turns her head to her right in the fallaway (this is allowed for artistic interpretation). As she turns her head to the right, her head weight will move. This will affect the balance, and the man must accommodate this. Dancing on his own, the man would not experience this shift of head weight, and therefore his movements would be different. Not a large effect, but important nevertheless.
There is also the little matter of leading. You can simulate this when dancing solo, but it can't be the same as really leading a partner.
Thus, in my view, dancing on your own cannot be the same as dancing with a partner. It's not about holding your partner up, it's about the balance and harmony of the couple as a whole.
Re: Balance
Posted by anymouse
6/26/2008  9:21:00 AM
"The man's (and lady's) movements have to be different from their movements when dancing on their own."

A skilled dancer would still move in a way that makes allowances for a nominally sized partner, even when they are practicing without one.

Note also that highly skilled dancers know how to move more directly through each other, with a detour that is quite small compared to that initially taken by beginners.

"Another example: fallaway reverse turn. Assume the lady turns her head to her right in the fallaway (this is allowed for artistic interpretation). As she turns her head to the right, her head weight will move. This will affect the balance, and the man must accommodate this. Dancing on his own, the man would not experience this shift of head weight, and therefore his movements would be different. Not a large effect, but important nevertheless."

Actually, you've got it kind of backwards. Her heard should not switch, unless there is an inflection in the movement that suggests it.

If switching her head is disturbing her balance in a way that her partner must compensate for, then she does not yet have the skill to do it that way and needs to first practice it with no head change, so that when the head change is later added it's a change in the direction of a head that is still staying positioned strongly to the left.

Ultimately what is different about dancing solo is the lack of feedback. You do what you think you would would need to do to accommodate a partner, but with no second body there to interact with, you have no physical feedback to tell if what you have done is reasonable for two people, or only workable for one.

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