dheun wrote: "I would be thinking more along the lines of American Bronze, "......

Yes, I know. That was the reason for my last post.

Then Polished wrote: "dheun. Can you explain what you meant when you wrote " Especially outside partner with a longer strides ". Is this on a Feather Finish. Or a Feather ending. Or step four of a Reverse Weave in Waltz."...........

And Polished is thinking International foxtrot which is completely different. No wonder he is confused about dheun's statement.

Bronze American foxtrot, unlike International, gets most of the rise and fall from the ankles, not the knees, at least on the forward slow steps. The QQ closing steps of the basic have a different type of rise and fall. The rise for the forward steps (assuming you can call this a rise) is created by an early push by the ankle that is behind. That little rise that is created by the back foot is absorbed by rolling from the heel to the flat of foot, on the foot in front. The knees are only used to the extent of what you do in normal walking. If you try to produce this rise and fall from the knees, it will be late and end up producing a bounce. It will likely to too big also. This rise/fall should be very small.

You might be better off thinking of this action as a "strut" or a "springing action" rather than rise and fall. It is considerably different from rise and fall in International foxtrot, and much smaller.

Most beginning dancers never get to the point of actually producing this correctly. It's not easy to do, and in my opinion is beyond what a average beginner should be able to do. However if you are an above average dancer you may be able to get this, and if you do, and if you decide to compete, you will be far ahead of the other competitors.

it really depends on whom is teaching the style and level.

I always trained my amer.style teachers and students the exact same techn.as the Intern.style ( modified hold ) in the Smooth. To differentiate would and does not make any sense .The reason many do not.. they do not have the training .

The latin is a different matter .

Everyone's thoughts and advice on this post have been helpful, especially because I have been taught the American style Fox Trot, but have been introduced to a couple of the International variations. I also would say I have been taught in the manner Terence is speaking, where the technique for the most part has been the same. But I also agree with SmoothGeezer in how he describes the difference in the rise and fall. It makes it a little easier for me to grasp that now.
It is correct that Polished may have been thinking International, as my reference to outside partner simply meant I have more freedom to take bigger steps and not be confined so much to a box step. My partner also knows I may reverse directions on the QQ steps from that position; but it's not particularly easier to go into continuity, or continuity styling (brush steps), as my instructors call it at our studio.

Don't confuse American bronze foxtrot with American silver foxtrot. American silver foxtrot technique is the same as International foxtrot. American bronze foxtrot is a whole different ballgame.

How strange that AM bronze does not progress into Am silver, it sounds like two different dances?

"How strange that AM bronze does not progress into Am silver, it sounds like two different dances?"

In many ways they are two different dances.

But even if you look at what really are two different dances, such as international waltz and foxtrot, you find eventually that there is a lot of technical similarity between them, which helps a lot with the learning process. In the end you have one concept of dancing, with each dance making more use of some of the common techniques than others and inflecting them a little bit with dance-specific character. That's especially true at upper levels where waltz and foxtrot borrow so many elements from each other (when you get passing elements in waltz, and some types of closing elements in foxtrot), though hopefully still execute them with the flavor of the dance being done.

Something that gets overlooked.. the speed of the music.

The social Bronze was developed to suit the up tempo rhythms of the 30s and 40s ( the Intern style Rhythm dance is based on 1/4 turns, like that of the Amer. style ).

To use those speeds for Silver would defeat their purpose .

"The social Bronze was developed to suit the up tempo rhythms of the 30s and 40s ( the Intern style Rhythm dance is based on 1/4 turns, like that of the Amer. style ).

To use those speeds for Silver would defeat their purpose ."

True, however going the other way can be quite useful: learning to do the bronze figures smoothly at the slower tempos of continuity (silver) or international foxtrot goes a long way towards building the control needed to do the continuity or international foxtrot.

This is one of those cases where it's actually a lot harder to dance slowly than moderately quickly.

"How strange that AM bronze does not progress into Am silver, it sounds like two different dances?"....

In my opinion they are two very different dances. American bronze foxtrot is not a very good prerequisite for American silver foxtrot. There are just to many differences. American bronze waltz is a much better prerequisite for bronze foxtrot. Anymouse did a good job of explaining that.

If the student happens to learn American silver waltz before learning silver foxtrot, there isn't a lot more to learn for foxtrot except for the timing, and maybe a few new step patterns. Nearly all steps in American silver waltz pass as they do in foxtrot. A closing step is rare. This is a significant difference between International waltz and American waltz, and also another case of something that doesn't completely flow from bronze to silver. When going from American bronze waltz to American silver waltz, someone decided to throw away all the closing steps from bronze waltz.

Of course it is generally more difficult for the average person to acquire those skills in the early stages, at much slower speeds, which goes to re emphasise my original posit.

I agree, it would be beneficial , long term.. but..many of the typical student types were not prepared to invest the time or money to acquire those skills .