He actually stated that he WAS trying to lead a 3/8 turn, and implied not knowing where, and or maybe, on which foot to commence .... the alignment I gave complied ( to me ) with the asked Q .

"He actually stated that he WAS trying to lead a 3/8 turn, and implied not knowing where, and or maybe, on which foot to commence .... the alignment I gave complied ( to me ) with the asked Q ."

You really need to read his question again.

He never implied any doubt about which foot to begin with - the fact that he was asking how to differentiate a 3/8 turn from a 1/4 turn makes it clear he was familiar with how to dance a reverse turning action in general, obviously including which foot to start with.

The commencing alignment, while useful to know, was not a question that was asked either, nor does it provide any reliable clue to how much turn will be made.

The commencing align. was useful ? without it, it would be a disaster.. .it seems to me he was not aware , that could be a contributory cause of ineffectiveness.

In addition, trying to "teach " someone in print by describing amounts of turn etc. can only lead to a distortion of the reality ( the CBM or the lack of it upper and lower body speeds etc ).. all the didactics are valueless if the basic concept is not understood, which it appears to be lacking.

And I did read it.. twice.. we,ll see what the poster has to say.

"The commencing align. was useful ? without it, it would be a disaster.. .it seems to me he was not aware"

There is absolutely nothing in his message to indicate that commencing alignment had anything to do with the difficulty. While commencing alignment may affect your options for what to follow a figure with when dancing around the room, it has nothing to do with your ability to execute the figure itself or communicate your intentions to a partner. And commencing alignment provides no clue to the poster's particular puzzle, at it's quite likely to be the same for the two figures he wanted to differentiate.

"In addition, trying to "teach " someone in print by describing amounts of turn etc. can only lead to a distortion of the reality ( the CBM or the lack of it upper and lower body speeds etc ).. all the didactics are valueless if the basic concept is not understood, which it appears to be lacking."

The question which was actually asked was much simpler and far, far more specific than you seem to think it was.

"And I did read it.. twice.. we,ll see what the poster has to say."

Quite obviously you did not read it, as you've ignored the question that was actually posed and instead devoted yourself to insultingly implying that the poster doesn't know which foot to begin on! Try actually listening to people for a change.

I would have thought that you deep thinkers would have mentioned that the untrained lady dancer has very little idea of the correct posture to start with. Meaning that most have the right side too far to the right(clockwise ) having no idea that the correct position is the right side , (thats the right bust) is in line and in contact with the same on the man. To have the right side open makes a Reverse Turn feel un-natural and impossible to keep the correct position within the partnership.
Take a look at any of the clips in the close hold on this site if you want proof

It seems like I really opened up a can of worms. I didn't mean to create such a controversy. Allow me to clarify. I do know alignment and which foot to start with. Another way I might state the problem with the lead would be: At what point (step) do I begin the lead. If I begin the lead on the & of 1 my partner thinks it might be a 1/4 turn but I think I need to lead her more down the LOD. Also exactly when does most of the "turn" take place? This might be helpful also. One more thing. Our teacher wants me to turn my left foot on beat one rather than going down the LOD. Is this a problem? Thanks for your comments

"At what point (step) do I begin the lead. If I begin the lead on the & of 1 my partner thinks it might be a 1/4 turn but I think I need to lead her more down the LOD. Also exactly when does most of the "turn" take place? This might be helpful also."

Turns in ballroom are initiated by the concept of contra body movement, which is to say rotation of the body coinciding with its (in this case forward) travel. In natural turns, this is quite simple conceptually - send the body forwards (with respect to the direction the feet are pointing) while rotating the body in a clockwise direction. But in reverse turns it's a bit more complicated.

I've heard three different, somewhat overlapping explanations of how CBM works in reverse turns.

One theory holds that reverse turns do not have true CBM, in that the rotation does not occur while the first step is taken, but only after it has been placed. I don't quite agree with this - it misses some internal nuances - but it does come close to describing the outward appearance, and may be a practical initial approach.

A second theory holds that the initial CBM rotation for reverse turns occurs in the hips, but not in the shoulders. I personally like this a lot. Think of trying to put your right knee behind your left knee, without turning your shoulders - it's tricky, but in about a week of focused practice you can learn to do it.

The third explanation I have heard is to start the CBM for a reverse turn by rotating everything, but then immediately undo most of the rotation. This is odd, but moderately practical in practice.

However, this issue of commencing the turn is going to be shared by both 1/4 and 3/8 turn figures, so I'm not really sure that it's the place to look for your answer. Things I would consider as important differences are (as mentioned before) the degree to which the second step moves initially forwards over the end of the standing foot (for a 3/8 turn) or already sideways from the inside edge of an already turned standing foot (for a 1/4) turn. And also how much turn you actually need to complete by the third step. If you were to place yourself alone with your feet on the floor where you would like to be at the end of the third step, but then adopt a very strong left side lead in the upper body, you might find that it's possible to achieve the desired ending foot alignment while keeping the body quite under-turned. To some extent, natural turns are about big travel, while reverse turns are more about keeping a nice left-side stretch in the partnership, actually without all that much travel.

"One more thing. Our teacher wants me to turn my left foot on beat one rather than going down the LOD. Is this a problem? Thanks for your comments"

My question would be what they mean by turn. If you take the position that your feet are pointing when you commence the step - probably DC, then I believe your step should land approximately in that direction, and not divert off to the left by much, though many less-skilled dancers including a number who call themselves teachers do make that mistake. However, if you mean turn as in what direction the foot should be pointed when it lands, there's more legitimacy for some change. Moving beyond the question of the foot's alignment and position when it is placed, in the 1/4 turning version the foot will swivel to a sideways direction earlier than it would in the 3/8 turning version.

There is nothing hard about the Reverse Turn providing the lady hasn't altered her position in relation to the partner. This is what i have been told. For instance. The position is lost on the Natural Spin Turn. And is still lost going into the Reverse Turn. If your set up is correct. Then it must remain so throughout the dance. It doesn't take a teacher. Just stop at the end of each figure and see for yourself. Ladies for some reason seem to have an irresistable urge to move to their right, in relation to the man, and take his centre away from him. Learn what NFR on step one means

"There is nothing hard about the Reverse Turn providing the lady hasn't altered her position in relation to the partner....Ladies for some reason seem to have an irresistable urge to move to their right, in relation to the man, and take his centre away from him."

The problem is a simple one really.

In natural turns, CBM tends to send each dancer to their own left, increasing the offset that is already present in the partnership and everyone is happy.

The temptation is to dance reverse turns as a mirror image of this familiar and comfortable action. A mirror image of natural CBM would mean that reverse CBM would tend to send each dancer to their own right - but doing that erases the usual offset to one's left, and ruins the hold.

The answer is then that reverse turn CBM is not the mirror image of natural turn CBM. Instead, reverse turn CBM begins mostly in the lower body, leaving the upper body essentially unrotated until fairly late in the step. Some teachers will even go so far as to say that reverse turns do not have CBM, or have CBM only at the conclusion of step 1 rather than at its beginning. This is not strictly accurate - there does need to be CBM from the commencement of the step in the legs and hips to set up the turn, but it can be useful to not call this CBM because the necessary action in the legs and hips feels so different from classic natural CBM that it may be best not to associate it with the habitual CBM technique of the natural turn.

Practically speaking, the man needs to learn to drive forward while slipping his right knee behind his left (creating the early part of reverse CBM) yet keeping a strong left side lead in his unrotated upper body until late in the step.

It doesn't matter wether it is a very young but untrained , or an adult. For some reason the girl seems to want to keep her right side off her partner. Which is the opposte to how it should be. It should be right side to right side and not left side to the mans right side. Put them into the correct position. Take a couple of steps and the set up it is gone. It makes a Reverse movement rather difficult for obvious reasons