I very much disagree with the notion that Standard/Latin and Smooth/Rhythm are basically the same. I've danced both styles and yes I've landed on Latin/Standard because I love the rigor and the demand.

Some of the dances are similar but the Rumba is an entirely different creature as is the foxtrot and the Tango. The Waltzes are similar as are the Cha Chas but otherwise???? and the make-up of dances isn't even the same.

By the way how exactly did your high level champion coaches become champions? I assume that they wasted their money, on oh wait....Competitions. The thing that all those people who aren't very good are doing.

Consistency of thought and message...don't say one thing and then say the opposite in the next sentence.

I would agree that someone who dances Standard won't want to dance with someone who doesn't know Standard...because guess what...they won't have the same dance vocabulary except in a few limited spots.

diva59,

If you ask ten men what makes a great lady dancer, you will likely get several different answers.

In my opinion, the best lady dancers were the ladies who learned to dance during WWII. They learned to dance at USO Clubs. They might dance with a Sailor from Texas one dance, and a Marine from New York the next.

Back then there was no television, and most folks learned to dance from friends and family. There was no International or American style.

Who ever was the best dancer in your town, made up most of the figures that you would see.

Dance styles varied greatly from one town to the next.

That being the case, the ladies had to learn how to follow. I have danced with many of these ladies, (They are all gone now.), and I can tell you that they really could follow anything you tossed at them. (And some of them were thirty or fourty years older than I was.)

They had no idea what figure they were doing, they just followed the muscle movements of the man. The felt every tightening of every muscle. They felt your body streach. They felt your knees soften. They felt even the tinest movement.

Following is a lost art. Only a few women today can actually follow figures they have never been taught.

However, I can tell you that if any of the modern instructors could teach people how to follow. A woman would need to learn only a few figures. (Of course, if they taught you how to follow, they would not make the big bucks they do now.)

The fact that you have to study a figure as much as a man does proves that you are being taught figures, not how to follow.

One of the things that makes me proudest when I dance is that ladies often tell me that they danced the best they ever did when we danced together.

I suggest that if you dance with a man who is not very good, that you make it your goal to get the best he has from him. (Even if you have to drrrrrag it out of him.) If a man does not lead fast enough, try to wait until he does lead. That will help him learn to lead, and it will give you practice in waiting for a lead. (The really good male dancers will love you for it.)

Once you get in the habit of leading, it can be difficult to get out of it.

Personally, when I see a lady having patience with a weaker male dancer, I give her points, and I will ususlly ask her to dance because I think she has paid her dues. (I like dancing with a real lady!)

Sorry to who ever thinks they should be rude to a poor dancer. I can tell you that a couple of the ladies who were rude to me when I first learned to dance, are now always asking me to dance with them. Every time they do, I remember how rude they were/are.

All these years later, and when I see their face, I still see the rude snoddy $%&*@! that I saw the first time I asked them to dance!

My advise,---Be a lady, it will pay greatly in the long run.

I hope that you aren't hearing me say be rude, because I'm not. I looked back and my response does sound a touch rude and it wasn't my intention.

I am saying you should do what pivotingfool says. Follow them, and if you do they will figure out that it isn't you who has a problem. In the meantime you are learning a lost art and he is right. A woman who can truly follow doesn't need to learn patterns.

I know them now, but I learned first to follow and then I learned the patterns. But they are for very different purposes. You almost HAVE to know the patterns if you are going to compete, but that is not always the most joyful part of dance. It is controlled and important but not essential.

Know your goals, and truly be a lady.

Well, at my lesson today I did speak with my instructor about the fact that at this point I seem to be dancing great tango with him and am not nearly as capable of discerning the lead from other guys. He seemed to feel that, at the stage I am currently at, this is common and not anything to be too concerned about. He said that, the longer I dance and the more practice I get dancing with many different partners, the less of this problem he feels I will have. He agrees, though, sometimes various men just don't lead very well or in some cases have become "lazy" in their lead because they have danced mostly with their female instructors who are at a pro level and therefore don't need much lead. At any rate, he pointed out to me (correctly, I realize) that there really isn't a whole lot he can do about the fact that some men don't do a real good job out there I knew that, of course, but just wanted to get any suggestions I could from him. With regard to the comment the one gentleman had made that I put too much of my own energy into the dance, my instructor disagreed with that. He said that I do have a lot of my own energy, but that he feels I still make every effort to follow the lead, and that sometimes my energy adds a lot to the dance - I am moving myself, albeit folliwng the pattern he leads me into. I felt better after hearing this, because he knows what he is doing and I trust what he tells me.

Oh, forgot to mention in the post above - re teaching the international standard patterns, my instructor mentioned several patterns, especially in waltz, that we have already learned which are standard, so he is definitely including that in my lessons.

Since you just started dancing, I would not try to learn both styles, American and International. They have different technique and steps. You are very new at dancing and have many steps to learn as well as learning to follow. Following takes time and experience and there are no short cuts. It took me a coupe of years to learn to follow well to the point where, if I dance with a man whose lead is confusing, I can keep my feet moving and do something until I figure out what he wants. Many men are not good leads and even if you follow faithfully and still don't get it, they are not going to look at themselves and think they need to improve. The man you were talking about, is rude. He should dance obvious steps with a beginner, not throw in his own stuff just to show off to whoever he thinks is watching.
As for how long you should continue, as others have said that is up to you, but I know social dancers who never stop taking lessons and never will. There is never a point where you know it all.

Lady,

I do find it interesting that some men truely believe that it is never their fault.

I believe the only rational way for a male Social Dancer to look at it is that it is always our fault.

If it is my fault, I can do something to correct it. I will adjust my lead to my partner. Or I can adjust what I am trying to lead. (The real test of a true gentleman is if he can do nothing but simple box steps for three minutes, if that is what it takes to make his partner happy!)

A newer dancer generally needs a little more strength in the lead she gets. The secret is that even though the lead is strong, it must be smoothly given. (Jerky motion is of little help.)

I teach that it is the man's job to analize what the lady knows, and to lead her to do just a little bit more than she is comfortable doing. (I said a little bit!)

Another thing about accepting the blame is that I never have to waste valuable floor time deciding who did what wrong. (How many hours of floor time are wasted fighting about whose fault it is?)

I apologize, and if I think she is game, I try again, if it still fails, I will try something easier.

The man's first responsibility is to make the lady feel like she wants to dance some more.

Telling a new lady dancer that she has messed up seldom helps her progress. Yelling at her doesn't help her to relax. Complaining does nothing of value.

When the lady finishs dancing with me, (Regardless of her skill level.), I want her to feel good about herself. I want her to feel like she is improving. I want to help plant the seeds of her love for dancing.

If she walks away smiling, I feel like I have done a good job.

This is what works for me, perhaps being rude works for someone else, but I doubt it.

Of course, I am a mere social dancer. Maybe competitors know something that I don't?

You are a dream come true, I wish all men had your attitude! There is no "mere social dancer". Social dancers can have as much skill and finesse as those who compete.
As a follower, I know that when I first started dancing I always thought it was my fault when I couldn't follow. Then I started talking to other women and found out that they also had problems with a particular dancer. I stopped being so hard on myself and did not allow the guy to get away with correcting me on the dance floor. Nor did I let him teach me the '"right way". 'Bully dancers' (as we call them) don't last long at our studio because no one will dance with them.

Some people just love to show off their prowess ending up bully dancers. They forget that the more mastery they achieve, the more humility they should practice.

Lady,

As a Social Dancer, things are a bit different. I don't believe so much in, "Right or wrong."

Social dancing is more like a conversation. I will often tell a lady that when I do this, I am trying to convey that thought. (Or movement.)

It is not about her doing something wrong, it is about her being able to understand the feelings and body movements of this dumb man.

Perhaps the lead I use, is not understood the way I meant to use it. If that is the case, the woman's response might not be exactly what I wanted.

Therefore, I must clearify my meaning. I usually do this by asking if you "Feel", something my body has done.

I might ask if you feel me leaning, or stretching. Once you feel it, then I can tell you what I want you to do when you feel it.

The ladies who taught me to dance, (A long tome ago.), sometimes told me that they did not feel it. (When that happened, I adjusted my lead so they could feel it.) Other times they would tell me that what they felt did not encourage them to do what I wanted. (Again, I adjusted.)

Dancing, (For me.), is a conversation with a beautiful woman. If I do not get my thoughts across, she will not enjoy our time together.

I am not big on, "Right and Wrong". Other than to say that if you and your partner feel as one with the music, and if you lose yourselves in the music, and if you forget all the troubles in your life, and if you feel like you and your partner are the only dancers on the floor, if you are traveling somewhere in your heart that no travel agent has ever been able to arrange for you, you might be doing something right!