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Re: leading
Posted by garryfong
1/7/2010  7:21:00 PM
In my experience, man not only should lead, man also should follow. It might sounds like double talk! Let me explain: Man start leading by signal the lady (usually from the body lowering action) to receive the lady onto his movement(or body). Lady at that time should give her motion to men. Man than continue with the lady's motion and follows her until the end of the step.

Body holding makes a big difference on leading and follow. Most american like to have right side to right side hold. It makes very difficult for lady to read your signal and follow because both partner are traveling to different tracks. British like to have diaphragm to diaphragm hold. This hold makes stronger signal for lady to follow and lead because both partner are traveling in the same track and both dance as one.
Re: leading
Posted by garryfong
1/8/2010  9:27:00 AM
Cy, thanks for the comments. My opinion is based from my training and experience. Of course everyone learned differently and should maintain whatever work for them.

Man always starts to lead whether he is in front or back or any position from lady. Man must encourages lady's moves then follows her moves afterward. I always lead my lady even from the 123 of the natural by doing proper CBM, sway, rise and fall, and foot works. These are all in the syllabus.

Many people use right side to right side lead today. It seems to make their frame wider. And many people look like they are doing the right side to right side lead. It looks that way because their poise and posture. Try to do a whisk (which is in pp position) with the right side to right side lead, you will find the lady will get way behind man's right hip. Consequently, man's right shoulder will get distorted. This will make any swing difficult. Many dancers shift their body slightly when they are in pp to avoid getting lady to0 far back...

Whatever, doesn't matter. Most important is to enjoy your dancing.

Garry
Re: leading
Posted by Cyd.
1/8/2010  1:47:00 PM
Garyfong. You obviously have an excellent teacher.
Glen Weisse ex cahampion goes into the Whisk and points out a few things which are different. We start the Whisk in the Waltz facing diag to wall. Without turning we place the 2nd step to the side which is diag to wall against the LOD and crosses behind.He then says that the mans shoulders which includes his arms must turn to point down the LOD. If they dont we are ready to go Diag to centre when where we should be going is down the LOD He shows this, which is easier than trying to write it.
Leading and following. All we need to remember is that the person going forward is in charge and takes the straight line. The person going backwards is making sure, that in this case the lady, doesn't have to step around their partner but goes where he was. I hope that makes sense. Intersting tho' Isn't it.
Re: leading
Posted by garryfong
1/8/2010  8:51:00 PM
Cy, thanks. My teacher is Denis Murphy from Liverpool. He learned from Charles Thebault (who also was the late Bob Irvine's teacher). In fact, Irvine has an video clip in youtube which talk about holding and stance.
Re: leading
Posted by Cyd
1/9/2010  3:09:00 AM
Something else which is often misunderstood is when we are told to stay on the supporting leg longer in the Standard Style. That doesn't mean wait until the foot is under the body and then stand on it longer. What it does mean is allow the rear foot go all the way to the tip of the toe before moving it forward and under the body. Let us also not forget that only one foot moves at a time. When the front foot stops moving the back foot begins to move.
Re: leading
Posted by Telemark
1/8/2010  11:48:00 AM
In my experience, man not only should lead, man also should follow.


Geoffrey Hearn offers the observation that "The Man suggests the movement, the Lady dances the movement, and the Man follows the Lady", and I think that's dead right.
Re: leading
Posted by anymouse
1/9/2010  11:22:00 AM
Communication between the bodies through the hand (which is of vital importance) does not mean force is applied with the hands - what it really means is that the partner is held and sensed with them.

Learning the difference between communication and force is an essential dance skill.
Re: leading
Posted by Iluv2Dance
1/14/2010  11:12:00 PM
Just curious. What is the difference between 'force' and 'pressure'?

I'm assuming that leading can be transmitted through pressure from the gent's right hand.
Re: leading
Posted by Telemark
1/16/2010  2:03:00 AM
Pressure requires force, obviously.

We need to be careful what we mean by using pressure. Braced muscles will exert a constant gentle pressure through the connection to the partner, and each can be very sensitive to the movement of the other, through the points of contact. That doesn't mean, of course, that any movement is initiated, or signalled from the man's LH to lady's RH handclasp: that would always be a basic fault. The man's RH on the lady's shoulderblade is used for leading, but as Geoff Hearn writes:

The Man's right hand should always move with the Lady's back, it must NOT move the Lady's back.
Re: leading
Posted by pivotingfool
1/17/2010  7:25:00 AM
As usual, very good dance rules, that were said to newer dancers in an atttempt to curb bad habits, seem to morph into dogma that allows no rational thoutht.

I would tell any man who was pushing with his left hand, and using it as his primary lead, that he should concentrate on leading with his body.

I would also argue that the left hand should be part of the mans frame, and therefor it would always be a part of his lead.

I know that some dancers have pretty much abandoned the use of the left hand, my belief is that the breaking of the frame, so you can say you are not using it for leading, is foolhardy.

In my opinion, the left hand is part of a man's frame.

So I guess we must agree to differ.

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