I think we need to understand WHY the Techn. book was written.. its original intent was to " standardise " the dances being danced in that time period.

It was not written for the student, per se, but as a GUIDE for exam purposes ( still is )..

Any teacher ,with a strong dance background, soon comes to realise, that the book gives an easy entry into the standard 4.

The theoretical side , and nuances, were left to the interpretation of the teacher.

Changes have occured, in techn. and continue to do so from time to time.. some were long overdue, and others, are newer concepts. But, one has to admit, it has stood the test of time, by and large .

remember... Books dont teach you HOW to dance.. they teach you ( in most cases ) WHAT to dance..

( we are still arguing over V.W. after eons !! )

Some real good points have been made. This has been a good discussion to read. Where I live, the "certified" instructors whom I started with could only take me so far. My curiosity reached past the "certifications" which after years, I still haven't seen. (Just 3 hours away from me lies a studio run by a fully certified, 5 time US champion (The trophy case is awsome to look at.). Visiting there is like visiting a holy place. ) So, books and DVDs lead me down the path of greater knowledge and understanding, but more was and is needed. I am now blessed to have great teacher who knows her stuff, and the human interaction that Belle mentioned is irreplaceable. It helps with the visual, kinetic, and overall comprehension of learning. Having someone frown at you when you moving backwack in CBMP, OP and your left or right side isn't leading properly is is a good thing. I also wish I had more people like those of you who respond here for face-to-face discussions because I learn a good deal this way, too.

Standardization was indeed a large part of the reason for the book.

Sadly, that part has worked too well. Now we have a situation where every dance form is moving toward the International version of what dancing is.

For me personally, Alex Moore made things that I was told by other dancers more clear.

I have often heard debates about a given figure. Many times, when I checked the book, I found that neither side was right. (Alex was seldom wrong.)

My point was that if you protect your product, (Like Sony did with the Betamax Vidieo Recorder, and the other guy gives licence to his product at a reasonable cost, (Like the VCR.), the other guy will run you out of business. He will make less per unit, but more overall.

And I agree about following. Most of the great followers do not know the names of the figures they are following.

Of course, for me, the great follower is the lady who follows my mistakes so well, that everyone thinks that I have just made up a new figure.

Pivotingfool wrote: " Sadly, that part has worked too well. Now we have a situation where every dance form is moving toward the International version of what dancing is."

Well I admit I don't know if that is true or not, but I would like to see that data from which you made that conclusion. Or did you just make it up?

Smoothgeezer,

If you go to a Country Western Competition, you will see the influence. Most of their top teachers take lessons from International Ballroom Instructors.

Many of the better American Style leaders are now taking lessons from International Coach's.

Check out Round Dancing, and Sequence Dancing. Both of which have moved very close to International Ballroom because again, their leaders take lessons from the top International folks.

Many of the easier dance forms are dying a slow death. Check out the Folk Dancers.

Twenty years ago I could find many different Europien Folk Dance groups. They are all gone now.

The Computer has hurt dancing, as it has many other social activities. (Write to your local Bridge Club and ask them about attendence.)

If you did West Coast Swing, wouldn't you go to a top Ballroom perosn for your styling?

We are losing the simple dance forms. (Vine eight, vine back eight, ect.)

Things are fine for those who want to put a lot of effort into their dancing. However, the person who just wants to have fun, has few options.

I think people who just want to have fun dancing have few opinions on how it should be done..

Thats what I thought. Its just your impression.

You cant determine if country western instructors take International lessons by just going to a competition. Many American instructors take International lessons, as they always have, just to improve teaching ability. Round dance isnt close to either International or American styles, and they are moving further away because they continue to make up steps, modify existing standard steps, and include steps from several different types of dance. Folk dance may be dying out but it isnt because they are converting to International. Bridge has nothing to do with dancing. The best place to go for west coast swing is to a Country Western instructor or to some of the American instructors, not to an International instructor.

None of your comments support your conclusion.

Most of the International pros I know don't know how to dance West Coast.

I don't think it is the competitors that are hurting ballroom. It is my solemn belief that it is television and the internet. Makes it possible to get social interaction without leaving the house or taking risks. Is this my opinion? Yes. Am I the only one who thinks so....no.

You want all of the old social acitivites to make a resurgance...kill media. Or let it continue to disintegrate to boring reality etc. and voila, people will have to leave their houses to be entertained.

Please don't blame Alex Moore for what appears to be not correct even at the time the book was compiled.. He only cataloged steps and technique which includes slows and quicks which was already in existance. Also he wasn't the only one involved in writting that technique book. It is a fact that Alex never won a Modern Ballroom Competition at any level. His expertice and experience lay in a different direction, mainly The Blues which went out of favoure in the early 20's. Read the Foreward to the book by Philip.J.S. Richardson. Who was at that time the number one Guru in the world of dancing. And was responsible for the formation of a Ballroom Section within the ISTD even though he never became a member of the ISTD.

Smooth,

Actually, the Country Western leaders will tell you that they take lessons from the top Ballroom people. (Several of them have told me this.) It is good that they want to learn from those who know things they do not know.

They do not do it for figures. (Although some of this does come through.) They take lessons mostly for styling, and technique.

Can you tell me that you have never sent anyone to Ballet lessons to learn more styling and technique?

I am sure you know more than I do, but I can tell you that I am always sending people to completely different venues for education.

Right now, I would advise the ladies here to check out a top Flamingo instructor for the use of hand work in styling. (These folks have something special to share.)

If a person comes to me and says they have no feeling of the music, but they want to dance anyway,--I send them to a Square Dance teacher.

If a person tells me that they want to compete on television, I send them to the top International person in their area.

International Ballroom happens to have the best, (As in most advanced.), leaders. It is good that everyone uses their knowlege.

It should not supprise you that everyone who teachs any form of dance goes to the top to learn.

As to Bridge having nothing to do with dancing. I have a theory you won't like.

I believe that all knowlege is related. Superior knowlege of any subject, gives one a leg up when learning a new subject. I am not big on Bridge, but I often find that when teaching a Bridge Player, having a basic knowlege of their game, comes in handy.

The decline in one social activity, does relate to the decline in others. (And most social activities are hurting.)

I try to learn a little about every dance form I see. I have learned something from just about every dance teacher I ever listened to.

Every dance form has special qualities.