Belgium Boy. Maybe Alec is getting muddled with two dances Rumba and Cha Cha. In the Rumba the more advanced dancers count & 2 & 3 & 4 1 . The & is because the hips keep moving and don't stop.

"I am sorry, but I do not agree with you Alec. One could count two, three, cha cha and step fwd (or bwd) on the two. But one can not count two AND three cha cha cha and certainly not step on the 'and'."

Sorry but this is just plain wrong. There are at least two options that put a step on the & after two.

Alternate timing: don't step on 2, instead step on & 3 4 & 1 (usually number of steps per measure)

Double syncopation: 2 & 3 4 & 1

and all sorts of other uses of ands counts in complicated groupings

I have ballroom danced for almost 3 years now (including Chacha and Rumba). I found the counting method a little bit odd. Since I also play music (incl Chacha and Rumba style), I found that all the dance teachers are correct regardless how they count.
Chacha and Rumba are 4/4 (4 beats in a measure). The first beat is always the strong beat.
So for ChaCha, some may count 1 2 3 & 4
or 1 2 cha cha cha, the count 1 matches with the first beat of the measure.
Some others couont 2 3 cha cha cha, and the count 2 match with the first beat of the measure.
So, does not matter how they count their steps are identical.

For those who count 2 3 cha cha cha, he start with the left foot (as always) sideways on count 1 (the only count 1 when you start) on beat 4 and he step back ward with his right foot on count 2 (beat 1).

For those who count 1 2 cha cha cha, they move their left foot forward on count 1 (beat 1).

All of them are correct.

For (American style) Rumba, I see similar difference in how dance teachers count. The key is on beat 1 move (SLOW), beat 2 pause, beat 3 move (QUICK) and beat 4 move (QUICK).

If you recognize where beat 1 is of the music, you will never step on the wrong beat, regardless of how you count.

Just my two cents.

"So for ChaCha, some may count 1 2 3 & 4
or 1 2 cha cha cha, the count 1 matches with the first beat of the measure.
Some others couont 2 3 cha cha cha, and the count 2 match with the first beat of the measure."

Sorry, but you are wrong.

The "cha cha cha" occupies counts 4, &, and 1 of the musical measure - it's an embellishment of the turnaround in the rhythm.

When a dance counts 2, 3, cha cha cha, they are dancing on beats 2, 3, 4 & 1

When someone counts 1, 2, 3, cha cha cha
they are most likely off time (ie, actually dancing on those beats), or possibly counting "1" on what is actually beat two, or in very rare cases dancing to music recorded with the accents in the wrong place.

Unfortunately,just lately many DJ's are playing the wrong music for cha cha even in competition the music is upbeat and more disco than cha cha, In fact you could just as easy dance a jive to it.

I kind of skimmed the responses, but didn't read them all. Yes, the basic timing on cha cha is 234&1 and for rumba 234 holding the 1. The leader can begin the dance with the weight on the RF and step fwd on the LF on 2 for either dance. However, most of the people I know will do it a little differently. In rumba, we usually start with our weight on the LF, RF held to the side, and shift weight sideways to the RF on the 4-1, then step fwd on the 2. For cha cha, you can do the same thing, shifting weight sideways on 1. The idea here is not to surprise your partner with a step fwd immediately. By shifting the weight sideways first, you've got a bit of preparation to lead into that first fwd step. A nice alternative in cha cha is to start in an open facing position, RF held back for the leader, LF fwd for the lady, and begin on the 4&1 taking the cha-cha-cha steps fwd (RLR for leader). The open facing position makes it a bit easier to start fwd without surprising your partner. In a closed position, if the follower doesn't move right away, you could end up tangled up. In the open facing position, you've got some room and time along with a bit of a visual lead, so it's not as much of a problem. Generally speaking, you can start off any dance pretty much however you like. Just shift your weight around to make sure the follower knows for sure which foot you're on before you begin, then go for it. There are some standard ways to start, but you don't necessarily have to use them.

If we are talking competition here the way you set up to start is very important. In a round with maybe twelve or more couples on the floor, the judges are already looking even before the music starts playing. So make sure you look smart ,alive and ready to go. It doesn't matter which style or which dance the rule is the same. Look good from the moment you step on the floor.

hi,Alec

I'm sorry to know lately about your questions. I would say that always one counting is prepairation.It means not counted.Aspecially in Rumba, one prepairation,two,three,four and one,this one is settle (they call)actually is a resting.But when you count and (for turning).You'll be confused better check with your D.I. I''v been dancing for more than 5 years. My name is thet. My mail is happythet@ganja.ac ,good luck. bye'.

Recently I watched a wonderful lecture of Dmitrii Timokhin on musicality in cha-cha-cha. BTW he and Anna Bezikova were students of Donnie Burns...
And Dmitrii used all known variants of cha-cha-cha count in the lecture like
[1,2,3,4&] , [2,3,4&1] , [2,3,cha-cha-cha] , [quick-quick-slow].
It depended which thing he specifically tried to emphasized in movement then he switched to more 'suitable' variant.
Igor

I liked your answer "Dronak".......and everyone elses has been interesting. I really love this web site.
I teach as you say "Dronak", and I have thought about starting with the 4&1 to make it different for the higher grades in the school.
I have found that in sequence dancing ( do you have it in other countries ? )they start the forward step ( rock ) on number one, which is a habit very hard to break.......people come to me wanting to learn cha and rumba but only knowing sequence and being totaly confused by the "off beat" teachings of the modern international dances. These people are usually in their 60's so sometimes impossible for them to take on board.
Julie x