Suomynona. I think it is worth while comparing a Rumba Walk to a Walk in Standard. In a Rumba Walk. Stand with the feet together. Weight on RF. Heel of LF as high as you can get it. The knee will be bent and is in front of the body That is position A. Send the Lf foreward straightening the knee and lower the heel. The weight is still on the RF. That is position B. Then the weight is sent forward by the use of the back foot to position C. Compare this with a Heel lead in Foxtrot. We do not have the luxury of a position B where the weight is still on the supporting foot. In our augument the weight continues forward through what would be position B all coming from the supporting foot. How anybody can even think that the front foot pulls the back foot beats me.

Suomynona. Thats exactly what I wrote. Nobody mentioned a stop in the middle. The word stop doesn't appear in any technique book so why would we. On some moves the body still moves even though the feet appear to be not travelling, take a Wing for instance. If you can think of a dart being thrown at a dart board. At some time it must be mid way between the hand and the board but still travelling appearing to be seemless. Which it is.The difference is that we are lowering and in some cases rising. In my humble opinion it is the way we use those seemless nuetral positions which seperates those who just move to those who dance. Remember, in any dance a step is just a step. The bit in between is where we dance.The way we move into it and the way we move out. Happy New Year Everybody.

Dave,

I support you on this one.

One 'pulls' onto the receiving leg. To understand this action one must 1st abandon 'pushing' the weight down onto the receiving leg. One cannot do both actions at the same time on the same leg. One compresses 'pushes' off the supporting leg and pulls onto the receiving leg.

For a forward step, as the moving heel hits the ground the point of pressure of the moving leg is ahead of the centre of weight. The lower leg, heel to knee, 'pulls' the upper leg and body forwards. The reaction is the knee joint bending 'forwards' correctly. This is the correct action of softening the knee as one receives the weight onto the new leg while continuing to maintain and build the forward momentum.

The other question is how strong is the pull. The push off the standing leg has already got the body moving so the 'pull' onto the receiving leg is not necessarily a strong 'pulling' of body weight. It will more often than not be 'pull' connection. By connection I mean a point of pressure contact of the heel with the floor to have a sense of aware of the floor rather than a point to actually generate a substantial force that must move weight. This is equally true for the push off the standing leg after the recovery step where the body still may still have momentum from the previous figure. The 'push' of the standing leg is again more a connection with the floor rather than a forceful push to get the full weight of body going.

Rha

Thanks Rha. You do a much better job of describing it that I can. Don, I do examine what I do before explaining it here. I don't have the mental capacity to do otherwise. Let me explain one other thing that I feel. You will notice that there is angle {25 degrees approx} between the thigh and front part of the body before our weight arrives completly over the foot when walking,our pelvis is slightly back of the head weight. when we arrive completly over the standing foot that angle will straighten the thigh and the body will form a straight virtical line ,the hips will be back under the head weight. It is the pulling up action of the heal that straightens the angle and pulls the hips back under the body. We are now virtical before taking the next step with the head weight and knees leading the body. This is what I feel and does not mean what actually takes place.

Rha and Dave - i can only assume you use the word 'pull' in a way which is fundamentally different from the definition i know. But if it helps your dancing to think of a pulling action, then that's good for you guys. But i simply can't accept that the moving foot, when it does its heel strike, exerts any force at all back towards the dancer's body.
Rha, if there were this pulling action, it would straighten the knee, not force it to bend. It bends because the dancer's momentum is absorbed by the knee.
try running in very soft mud. You will find your back foot (the one you're leaving) sliding backwards, and your front foot sliding forwards. If the front foot were trying to 'pull' you forward, it would be sliding back towards you. This doesn't happen.
Having said all that, if this mind picture helps you, that's fine.

Phil,Its not so much what I think but what Geoffrey Hearn says. A trainer of world champions who has the Carl-Allen Award and the BDF Special Award for his work he also took over the Letter Service from Alex Moore which is now called the CHoreographer so who am I to disagree.

lots of famous people misuse words, even words with precise dance definitions get misused by the best sometimes.

Dave
I know very well who Geoffrey Hearne is. Maybe next time i see him, i'll ask him about this

Hi Phil,

I'll try explaining what one means by this 'pull' because I'm not sure you have the idea. I'm not trying to convince you. Give it a try and if it does'nt work for you then dismiss it. Also, this 'pull' action is not dance imagery. It is real.


"if there were this pulling action, it would straighten the knee, not force it to bend..."

What you say is true if you were to 'lock' your knee and create leverage from the hip-joint. Allow the knee joint to be soft and yielding to allow leverage at the knee joint.

"It bends because the dancer's momentum is absorbed by the knee."

Yes, the knee can absorb momentum and bend and this is what one may want for a recovery step after the upswing. But for the preparation step, this is precisely the intent I'm trying to convince you to change. Don't use the knee to absorb and dissipate the momentum by a 'push' connection with the floor. Use the knee to build/ preserve momentum by using a 'pull' connection through the receiving foot. At the same time you have the soft knee to get the body going 'even more' into the upswing.

"try running in very soft mud. You will find your back foot (the one you're leaving) sliding backwards, and your front foot sliding forwards. If the front foot were trying to 'pull' you forward, it would be sliding back towards you."

Yes, quite true but soft mud dramatically reduces the force of friction and it is this force that is being used to create the 'pull' and the 'push' on the dance floor.

It is important to think about these 'push' / 'pull' forces of the feet onto the floor as being more than forces to get body weight moving. The 'pull' force particularly is often more a 'connection pressure' with the floor rather than a substantial force that's required to move the body. As you know connection points communicate information or awareness through pressure/ forces and they do not necessarily transfer momentum between bodies.

Rha

Well I realy started something here with my push & pull. But what a wonderfull learning experience for those like myself who have still lots of learning do or the ambition and desire to excel.