Do we ever twist the spine. I asked on Wednesday. This couple are among the top 30's in the world they are also currently having lessons with John Wood Michael Barr Andrew Sinkinson who will be here in a few days time, and the list goes on. I asked do we twist the spine at any time , the answer we never twist the spine. Somebody mentioned the Throwawy Oversway. This is the only time the man arches the spine, this is not a twist. I suspect this was a loaded question where the questioner already knows the answer Right. Just testing eh.
At last I think I have figured out Anonymous's mistake. He is putting a verticle lowering as in the Waltz and trying to put it into a linear dance which is the Foxtrot. That would explain why he believes the thigh is verticle over the knee.
I can perform CBM and CBMP without getting my spine out of alignment. If I can do it anybody can.If there is any difficulty try solo with a small towel held around the neck with the elbows held in the normal position. Try a Feather and Reverse Turn with strong CBMP on the third step. If you were to twist your spine on the first step of Reverse Turn. What a mistake.

"Do we ever twist the spine. I asked on Wednesday. This couple are among the top 30's in the world they are also currently having lessons with John Wood Michael Barr Andrew Sinkinson who will be here in a few days time, and the list goes on. I asked do we twist the spine at any time , the answer we never twist the spine."

The problem is that you are asking it as a loaded question to which many might on instinct disagree. Quit asking silly questions and spend time actually studying their dancing, and you will learn that it is indeed necessary for the hips and shoulders to rotate at different times in many situations, and even to sustain different alignements in situations like promenade.

"Somebody mentioned the Throwawy Oversway. This is the only time the man arches the spine, this is not a twist."

It is both a long arch, and also a situation where the hips and shoulders do not match. Describe that however your wish, but the reality is that it happens.

"At last I think I have figured out Anonymous's mistake. He is putting a verticle lowering as in the Waltz and trying to put it into a linear dance which is the Foxtrot. That would explain why he believes the thigh is verticle over the knee."

No, you have it exactly opposite. Neither the lowering in foxtrot nor the lowering in waltz is vertical - both progress. This confuses many people, because during the lowering in waltz the feet do not progress the way they do when we take a step while lowering in the foxtrot. Yet the body must still progress. Those who don't understand this try to keep the body weight in stationary as they lower in waltz, by sending the knee forward alone. The proper way however is to bend the knee forward, and move the body forward with the knee. This means that the body is progressing during the waltz lowering, and incidentally it means that the body will be vertically over the knee, RATHER than vertically over the standing foot.

"I can perform CBM and CBMP without getting my spine out of alignment."

Of course, you must keep alignment of the spine. But you rotate your body around it, and in many situations not everything will be facing the same direction.

"If you were to twist your spine on the first step of Reverse Turn. What a mistake."

Dancing a good reverse turn requires that you delay the rotation of the shoulders until very late in the first step - if you bring them through too soon you will shove your partner across you to the wrong side of your body. So your choices are either not to use any CBM in the reverse turn and wait to turn until step two (which is not CBM). Many leading teacher say that this is what they way. But I don't think it really is. Instead, what they want is probably the same as those who teach that reverse CBM begins in the knees and hips which rotate early in step one, and gets to the top only at the end of step one. Differential rotation - lower body first, upper body afterwards.

Rha,
I see your point. Now, if you (as I understand your reply) keep the hips aligned with the shoulders through CBM wouldn't that make the forward progression flat (devoid of CBM), because you don't have any body torque, just rotation of the ankles and knees, somewhat).


I say this because the fundamental (rough) definition of CBM is the rotation of one side of the body towards the moving leg. When the magnitude of the movement increases, doesn't it require more upper body (above the center) rotation? And therefore the shoulders, by virtue of spatial relationship with the partner, will rotate more than the hips?

While, I can see having torque through the legs and ankles, I find it difficult to do when the legs are bent and progressing forward/back. As a practical matter of body mechanics, when creating hip swing (as a by-product of CBM) don't you need body torque-which in this case, is isolated more from the hip upwards. And doesn't that presume, to some extent, rotating the shoulders beyond the hip's line?


[Tell you what, I'll start this in a new post so as not to hijack this very contentious thread--hope to hear from you there.]

Anonymous. Lets stick to one part only. Waltz on the sixth beat of an Open Imputus Turn are both feet pointing in the same direction. On that beat are you in Promenade.
The same question on an Open Telemark.
Your last paragraph. I'm not sure if this is Waltz or Foxtrot Either way the weight will be over the front knees Waltz. knee Foxtrot . In both cases the bending of the knee combind with the lowering of the heel will result in the now moving leg to move early ahead of the partner who will take over . I hope that has come out right. In other words you cannot write about the knees bending unless you mention the moving leg. They do not start from a feet together position. Thats why we count the Waltz 3 and

Anonymous. Both feet point in the same direction and at this point you are not in Promenade. It is a mistake to have one foot pointing one way and the other pointing another way. Waltz Foxtrot or Quickstep. Especially the Open Telemark

"Anonymous. Both feet point in the same direction and at this point you are not in Promenade. It is a mistake to have one foot pointing one way and the other pointing another way. Waltz Foxtrot or Quickstep. Especially the Open Telemark"

Usually the feet point in the same direction, yes. Promenade would be a good example.

On the other hand, a step which is a pointing alignment, such as the backwards action of a natural or a reverse turn, does not have the feet pointing in the same alignment.

Also, even if the feet are pointing int he same direction as each other, that says nothing about if the hips and shoulders match each other. Which of course they will not in promenade or the pre-promenade shapes of the impetus or telemark.