Log In

Username:

Password:

   Stay logged in?

Forgot Password?

User Status

 

Attention

 

Recover Password

Username or Email:

Loading...
Change Image
Enter the code in the photo at left:

Before We Continue...

Are you absolutely sure you want
to delete this message?

Premium Membership

Upgrade to
Premium Membership!

Renew Your
Premium Membership

$99
PER YEAR
$79
PER YEAR
$79
PER YEAR

Premium Membership includes the following benefits:

Don't let your Premium Membership expire, or you'll miss out on:

  • Exclusive access to over 1,620 video demonstrations of patterns in the full bronze, silver and gold levels.
  • Access to all previous variations of the week, including full video instruction of man's and lady's parts.
  • Over twice as many videos as basic membership.
  • A completely ad-free experience!

 

Sponsored Ad

+ View Older Messages

Re: It cant be so
Posted by Quickstep
4/11/2007  6:53:00 PM
According to John Wood and confirmed by the writing in Alex Moore' s book. Even after the first step the body comes into a balanced position, call it neutral if you like, which is the body aligned over the feet. This is on the fourth half beat. Three half beats for the step and one half beat to come into neutral at which point the body is aligned over the feet. I am quoting here. If you can quote from another source which contradicts the above. Do so.
Re: It cant be so
Posted by Anonymous
4/11/2007  7:30:00 PM
"According to John Wood and confirmed by the writing in Alex Moore' s book. Even after the first step the body comes into a balanced position, call it neutral if you like, which is the body aligned over the feet.

The problem isn't that what you've written is wrong, the problem is that it is MISLEADINGLY INCOMPLETE.

The picture you describe (or a slight variation*) exhists, but you persist in GROSS IGNORANCE of the picture that will immediately follow it.

And that is that AFTER the body is over the feet, then next thing that will happen is that it will be AHEAD OF THE FEET. But even as it moves ahead, the TORSE REMAINS VERTICAL. There is no leaning into the movement - the body moves with the knee, and everything from the knee up remains vertical.

* the slight vartion, is of course, that on most skilled dancers the body will pass over the feet a short time before the feet actually close - by the time they have done so, the body is already advancing towards or beyond the standing toe.

"This is on the fourth half beat."

No, that is too early. Watch videos of any real dancer, and you will see that the fourth and a half beat is where they are just placing their last step. The body won't arrive over that foot until later... remember, don't make your old mistake of assuming that step four lands on the beat, because NOBODY ACTUALLY DANCES IT THAT WAY, even if they confuse themselves by claiming to! Count the frames in your videos and THE TRUTH WILL BE REVEALED. (I suspect you'll continue to ignore this though)
Re: It cant be so
Posted by Quickstep
4/11/2007  8:12:00 PM
Too much talk just to explain that on the first two half beats the front toe is off the floor . Lowers to the floor on the next half beat assisted by the push off the backfoot. Following that we have the moving foot using the fourth half beat to come into neutral.If that is what you meant. Excellent. When we split a beat we call it 1 and or 2 and, the and always comes after the beat
Re: It cant be so
Posted by Anonymous
4/11/2007  9:41:00 PM
"Too much talk just to explain that on the first two half beats the front toe is off the floor."

Utter nonsense!

The toe STARTS OUT ON THE FLOOR.

As you yourself have pointed out, it won't become a heel (if it is even a step where that should happen) until near the end of its travel.
Re: It cant be so
Posted by Quickstep
4/12/2007  7:25:00 PM
If I were you I would make sure I know what I am writting about first..
The ball of the foot , not the toe passes under the body and will go for about 7 to 10 inches (this is predetermined by the height and build of the dancer), untill it HAS to become a heel . At this time the push from the standing foot travells that heel that is leading to the end of its stride. Where you will have two straight legs and the body mid- way. between the two..
From the manuel page 9. Take the weight on to the LF and proceed as follows.
Swing the Right leg forward from the hips, first with the ball of the Right foot touching the floor and then the heel skimming the floor with the toe slightly raised.
As the Right foot passes the toe of the Left foot the Left heel will be released from the floor, so that at the full extent of the stride the ball of the Left foot and the heel of the Right foot will be touching the floor. Lower the Right toe immediately to the floor so that the foot is flat on the floor.
Those two paragraphs are straight from the book word for word and can be copied and quoted.
None of the above can happen if there is no contact with the floor. The heel should skim the floor and on no account lifted from the floor. Not like somebody else I know.
If the foot is lifted from the floor there is no control of the speed of the foot. It will get faster. Thats a big mistake there would be no contol of the foot from the time it is lifted to the time it finaly touches down.
Re: It cant be so
Posted by Anonymous
4/12/2007  8:28:00 PM
"The ball of the foot , not the toe passes under the body"

The toe will also be on the floor. As you know, it is common shorthand in the technique book to say "toe" even though the ball is perhaps the more important part.

"and will go for about 7 to 10 inches (this is predetermined by the height and build of the dancer), untill it HAS to become a heel."

On a decent dancer it will go a heck of a lot further than that before becomming a heel. However, if the dancer is so foolish as to STOP THE PROGRESS OF THEIR BODY over the standing foot and let the free leg swing on it's own, then yes indeed it would get to a heel very early. But if they do it properly - sustaining the body movement and swining the free leg from a body that is moving, it won't reach the heel until substantially more distance has been covered.

"At this time the push from the standing foot travells that heel that is leading to the end of its stride."

NO!

You push from the standing heel long before the moving foot becomes a heel. The push is to SEND THE BODY, and the body moves before the free leg swings, with the swing of the leg only gradually superceding the body movement as the reason why the moving foot is moving.
You've been being told this one way or another for something like year now, but your persist in wanting to do it in exactly backwards order, swining your leg before you send your body. Start sending your body first and your dancing will rapidly improve!

"Where you will have two straight legs and the body mid- way. between the two.."

Carefull with your quoting. The body will be in between, but NOWHERE DOES IT SAY that it will be pricesly midway - and in fact, the given feet positions make it obvious that it will be closer to foot with the SHORTER effective leg lengh, which is to say the front foot, on a leg measured only to the heel, and not the back leg, a leg whose effective lenght includes quite a bit of the foot since it's heel is up. Here again, you've been told this dozens of times, but your stubbornly persist in your ERROR.

"From the manuel page 9. Take the weight on to the LF and proceed as follows.
Swing the Right leg forward from the hips, first with the ball of the Right foot touching the floor and then the heel skimming the floor with the toe slightly raised."

Yes, but remember that THE BODY IS MOVING during the entire time that you do this. Your mistake is in thinking that it isn't when 10 seconds with a video of any champion would show that in fact it is!

"The heel should skim the floor and on no account lifted from the floor. Not like somebody else I know."

Really? Who lifts their foot? Certanly not me, as I've reminded you dozens of times that I don't!

"If the foot is lifted from the floor there is no control of the speed of the foot."

ABSOLUTELY WRONG! The control of the foot speed comes from the AIM OF THE BODY MOVEMENT. If you have to drag your moving foot against the floor to slow it down, you are badly mistiming your movement. Yet another error you persist in making, despite being corrected on it numerous times. But what the heck, I can type way faster than you can...
Re: It cant be so
Posted by Quickstep
4/12/2007  9:36:00 PM
What exactly is meant by. At the extent of the stride the weight it is divided between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the back foot. Considering that the toe of the front foot is off the floor and the heel of the back foot is off the floor. Do we need a calculator to divide it in to two.
The piece about a foot clear of the floor will result in the foot moving too fast. This came from a former World Finalist plus judge at Blackpool and spoken on our Dancing with the Stars two weeks ago.
What is your claim to fame. Who are you to contradict such a high authority
The push from the standing foot on which we stand longer, is after the ball of the moving foot passes the standing foot after which the heel of the standing foot will leave the floor.
The heel of the foot is in contact with the floor much more and over a greater distance than the ball of the foot, not counting the distance travelled whilst the foot is to the rear. The distance travelled when it becomes a heel is predetermined unless your foot is off the floor.
It would appear you are conradicting your own arguement that the body goes ahead of the foot by the heel not becoming a heel till a sustantial distance has been covered.
I find it extremly difficult to keep pace with your changing statements. On minute you are telling us that your feet do not leave the floor. The next minute you are saying that the feet off the floor does not affect the timing.
Re: It cant be so
Posted by Anonymous
4/12/2007  9:49:00 PM
"What exactly is meant by. At the extent of the stride the weight it is divided between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the back foot."

Probably exactly what it says, at least for the situation about which it was written (I don't believe it applies to more dynamic dance actions).

"Considering that the toe of the front foot is off the floor and the heel of the back foot is off the floor. Do we need a calculator to divide it in to two."

No, but you might want to think about it for a minute. With the front heel on the ground, that leg is effectively shorter than the back leg, which has it's ankle off the ground. Thus you will be closer to your front leg than to your back leg, if both are straight.

"The piece about a foot clear of the floor will result in the foot moving too fast. This came from a former World Finalist plus judge at Blackpool and spoken on our Dancing with the Stars two weeks ago."

Well it's still wrong, and this would hardly be the first time a teacher has used a flawed argument to support something which would not be a bad idea without that argument. You should not need floor pressure to control the speed of your foot, if your movement is otherwise coordinated. You probably want to have your foot on the floor, but your shouldn't RELY ON THIS in order to control the speed of its movement.

"What is your claim to fame. Who are you to contradict such a high authority"

Someone who actually thinks about cause and effect, instead of blindly repeating what I've been told.

"The push from the standing foot on which we stand longer, is after the ball of the moving foot passes the standing foot after which the heel of the standing foot will leave the floor."

When the standing heel should leave the floor depends on the footwork of the step you are departing. If it was TH, then the heel must rise BEFORE the end of the step. But if it was TH, then the heel must stay on the floor not just after the passing of the feet, but very nearly until the moving foot is placed. Needless to say, many people overlook this, but it's a big deal in lessons with some of the Blackpool champ types - and theya re right. Departing a TH step is very different from depating a HT step.

"It would appear you are conradicting your own arguement that the body goes ahead of the foot by the heel not becoming a heel till a sustantial distance has been covered."

No, I'm reinforcing my argument. Because the body initially goes ahead of the moving foot, this keeps the moving foot relatively flat or even ball-down longer. It won't pop up to be a heel until the leg has swung. If you do the action properly, the early part of the stride is a sending of the body, and during that the ball of the moving foot dominates. In this proper action, the leg swing is later, and the heel lead won't develop until the leg swing nears completetion.

But fail to send your body and instead just swing your leg from a stationary body, and then you will get a heel very quickly indeed!

"I find it extremly difficult to keep pace with your changing statements."

Of course you do - because I'M NOT CHANGING THEM. The alleged change is a result of your INABILITY TO COMREHEND HOW THE HUMAN BODY MOVES.

"On minute you are telling us that your feet do not leave the floor. The next minute you are saying that the feet off the floor does not affect the timing."

If you can't see the compatability of these statements, then your reading and reasoning ability is even worse than I imagined!

The foot genearlly shoulnd't leave the floor, but you also should not by relying on floor pressure to control it's timing. No conflict between those statements AT ALL!
Re: It cant be so
Posted by Anonymous
4/12/2007  9:51:00 PM
"If it was TH, then the heel must rise BEFORE the end of the step. "

Of course that should read HT - heel, then toe, reached before the end of the step.
Copyright  ©  1997-2026 BallroomDancers.com