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Re: what the chains don
Posted by anymouse
8/21/2007  7:58:00 PM
"Hmmm! Makes one wonder why so much advertising places emphasis on couples in formal competitive dress instead of everyday wear at social events."

Wait, that's not what you wear at your socials? kids today...
Re: what the chains don
Posted by operabob
8/21/2007  8:35:00 PM
anymouse,

LOL!

OB
Re: what the chains don
Posted by danceintacoma
8/21/2007  9:07:00 PM
Again Still showing your "upteen level of ignorance. Again only 4 levels of bronze, and the yes the repetion is stressed as it is with any physical skill. All teachers are qualified to teach any student primarily because we use a team teaching system no one teacher is so important that if they should leave for any reason that the students progress would be hendered. And if that student should chose they could cancel thier program and move on.
We don't have to offer "bonus lessons" to get someone to enroll on their program. If you choose to teach without stucture or an order than it is you who are cheating the student robbing them in fact I have several students who have come from those studios all with no understanding of what they have learned and no skill to lead or follow anyone except the inept so called intructor who attempted to train without a plan, luckly they were smart enough to see it and came to a REAL SCHOOL. To collect one lesson at a time means that you teach with no long term plan or goals no REAL TEACHER teaches that way. You couldn't walk into Med School and say I want to learn to do open heart surgery but I'm only gonna buy one lecture at a time. I'm through talking to you now. It's clear what ever darkness is in your past has made you bitter and quite frankly I'm too busy teaching to listen to anymore sillyness.
Re: what the chains don
Posted by 5lisamarie
8/21/2007  11:20:00 PM
Danceintacoma..........I really like your last posting.......I am a Fads student and am very happy learning from a "chain" studio. I have a great teacher........

You make a very good point about having a plan and structure. I'm happy to see a solid defense of Am and Fads chains........I'm sure there are good and bad teachers everywhere. We just need to ignore the detractors. We are here talking about dance because we love dance........AM, Fads or independant.........it really doesn't matter......not happy at one....move on to another and find your happy place.....I KNOW that I am getting a good dance education at a "chain"studio.
Re: what the chains don
Posted by notjustanymouse
8/22/2007  7:14:00 AM
What is REAL Dancing and REAL teaching? Are you saying when I go out with friends to any club with anybody using my chain taught steps where my instructor spent umpteen lessons refining just a few steps over many lessons (that you say you do but don't do? Don't spend the time but do the repetition?) You really have no REAL clue.
anymouse grow up and look at the REAL world that you have hidden yourself from. The world is made up of REAL dancers (still don't get that one.) from everywhere, every kind of studio. Having fun socially, competing, showing off. So when you are done on your high horse then maybe you will see all of the Real dancers and REAL teachers from all walks of life and training. And just because you are an independent or maybe a competitor does that make you a good (REAL) teacher. Not usually.
I won't argue with you since your ears are closed and you are going La la la la la. So good luck with your studio and may you not close due to pride which is a trait I have NEVER seen in a REAL teacher of REAL people.
Re: what the chains don
Posted by anymouse
8/22/2007  8:59:00 AM
"Again Still showing your "upteen level of ignorance. Again only 4 levels of bronze"

Which is still 3 too many.

Instead of picking a manageable half dozen figures to illustrate the key concepts of bronze level dancing, you overload the students with an endless variety of bronze-level fluff to fill up lessons.

That is not a recipe for progression in dancing skills, it's a recipe for spending the rest of your life in the kind of lessons that can be taught by entry-level teachers.

"All teachers are qualified to teach any student primarily"

What a joke. If you were actually educating students, they'd rapidly outpace many of your staff. And in fact that's what frequently happens when you get a student who is managing despite all the odds against it to really learn something.

You know, there's another dirty little secret - if you can train teachers in a few months, why can't you use the same program on students??? Answer: you don't want the students to learn efficiently, because if they did then they'd outgrow what your staff has to teach. You have to water down the student training program compared to the staff training program, to make sure that the staff stays ahead of the students.

"We don't have to offer "bonus lessons" to get someone to enroll on their program."

Yeah right. So I can buy a 100 lesson package, cancel after a half dozen lessons, and end up paying the same per-lesson rate as I would have paid if I took all the lessons (paid + bonus) on that package? I don't think so!

"If you choose to teach without stucture or an order than it is you who are cheating the student robbing them in fact"

No, it is how all dancers who are actually making real progress on skills are trained. We teach the ideas - the figures are this trivial little sidelight that provides a context for teaching the ideas. That's why the syllabi of real programs are so short compared to those of the chains - they cut out the fluff, and have just enough to illustrate the important ideas.

"I have several students who have come from those studios"

What you mean is that you have students that come from independents that are nothing but poor imitations of the chain system. Nobody is recommending such places, as they are not example of real training either. Instead, we are recommending REAL TEACHERS, with 10+ years of personal experience in competition and judging.

Another thing you keep forgetting: your country is really a backwater in terms of dance education. The places in the world that are efficiently producing skilled dancers are not doing it using the chain model, or by selling packages. Instead, they are doing it by teaching the key ideas. The chains have exported their model a little bit, but for it's business potential only. In terms of dance education, it's a sad joke... only you yourself not having any exposure beyond your sheltered world can't see that.

"To collect one lesson at a time means that you teach with no long term plan or goals no REAL TEACHER teaches that way."

On the contrary, all REAL TEACHERS teach that way. Go ask some blackpool finalist to sell you a package and be prepared for an outburst of laughter...

"You couldn't walk into Med School and say I want to learn to do open heart surgery but I'm only gonna buy one lecture at a time."

The state of the art in dancing is not academic, it is much more like the old apprenticeship model. There have been attempts to systemize training, but the problem is that they are not based around a true intent to present the important knowldege, but instead around a desire to "can" it to the point where it can be presented by relatively inexeperienced "teachers" instead of by people who have a decade or more of true personal experience. The people who know and teach the REAL DEAL are still doing it on something approaching the apprenticeship model.

"I'm through talking to you now. It's clear what ever darkness is in your past has made you bitter and quite frankly I'm too busy teaching to listen to anymore sillyness."

You are too busy throwing your umpteen levels of bronze fluff as an obstruction in the path of your student's actual progress to actually have any interest in the promotion of REAL DANCE SKILLS.
Re: what the chains don
Posted by notjustanymouse
8/22/2007  9:18:00 AM
And just so you know, as a lawyer by trade, your arguments, while seemingly rational, are all fallacious with no factual or rational backing, good try though. You are a little too emotional
to be a good arbitrator for your viewpoint and you are sadly making a bad name for independents who are doing a good job.

"Answer: you don't want the students to learn efficiently"

How is one lesson at a time efficient?

"You are too busy throwing your umpteen levels of bronze fluff as an obstruction in the path of your student's actual progress to actually have any interest in the promotion of REAL DANCE SKILLS."

If you have to keep making the same fallacious argument to make your point, then you probably don't have case.

"Another thing you keep forgetting: your country is really a backwater in terms of dance education"

Once you resort to petty put downs. You lose, argument over.
Re: what the chains don
Posted by danceintacoma
8/22/2007  3:04:00 PM
You obviously Know nothing about the Arthur Murray Sylabus, Perhaps you should look at one. Not even being an American style dancer than you can't even comment on what we do in america, I don;t cirtisize the International schools just the independents in america. Having no experience with people from abroad personally, I't would be speculatory to say anything about the satisfaction of students taking lessons in those schools, as for the quality of their results I have met some ameture competitors and it's been 50 50 some good some terible. My sheltered world is not that sheltered and not a all jaded open your eyes the wolrd is changing. And If a student wants to commit to the 8 hour a day 2 every day than yup they could learn much faster unfortunatly people here don't eat and breathe Ballroom dancing, they have lives out side of the studio, and as most people can't afford to take over 200 private lesson in 2 months time(in any school) than teaching them the way we train teachers is not realistic but a REAL TEARCHER Would know that.
Re: what the chains don
Posted by amaisucks
8/22/2007  3:19:00 PM
danceintacoma i am really sorry your eyes are so closed and you have been brainwashed into the fanchise school of thoughts. there is an entire world out in dadncing that you have never been exposed to and have always been told how negative it is. i know i started at a fads. i left fads and went to ami. i have the record of testing out of any teacher exam in the country. i tested out of your entire brnze syalbus in 3 days. i know what the hell i am talking about. i foundd the outside world to dance and i love it everything you have ever been told has been to protect the business. at the end of the day take away the dancing and its a business dont forget that. now like everyone here is saying you have no clue. people dont need to buy huge packages to get progress or attain there goals. i have some top competition sudents who buy 40 lessons at a time but it only last them one month maybe two tops and its more convienent for them that way. i work with people who only buy one lesson at a time and they get just as much from me as anyone. i teach wedding couples social couples and competition. i have a reputaion for being an incredible teacher. i fly to other studios around the country and do coaching. i know what i am talking about. please quit repeating what comes out of your studio managers mouth to us on here we all have real world experience here. if a franchise was so great why wouldnt everyone want to be a employee. because there really is no real reason to be apart of a corporation. i like making a min of 75 per hour. you cant touch that. i am going to guess by your posts you have been at ami for about1-2 years. you will see he light sonner or later and you will come back to thank us.
Re: what the chains don
Posted by danceintacoma
8/22/2007  7:59:00 PM
Actually I do Better than 75per hour, and I have 401k and medical inssurance paid for by my employer so please don't patronize me. I don't see the Outside world as a negitive place and honestly no one in the AMI faamily that I've been in contact with has ever given me reason to think that it is. My opions are my own from my personal experience of which I've had alot. After my 6years with AMI and my 10 years of dancing I think that I am qualified to make my own judgements thank you. I just believe that it is wrong and highly irresponsible of any teacher to bash an organization based on their own self promotting and biased opinions. To believe that the Frachise ways are wrong simply because they are different is one thing but to make up lies and half truths is totally another. Their is a big world out there and it's filled with dancers of all different needs and desires some will work better in the system's used by the franchises others might not and I have recommended to some that we are not the right place for them based on their needs. I'm no tpart of a corperation I'm part of a family with members as far away from me as australia, people whom I get to see when the whole family gets together, you those AMI Dance-o-Ramas, both professional and student a like. We greet each other by first name and share our love of dance with one another.Bet You Can't say that. There is no reason to want to go anywhere else because I am home. And the people I instruct believe that too.

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