CBMP is a foot position (ie one foot in relation to the other foot), and has nothing, directly, to do with the alignment of the body in the swing dances. Tango has its own technique, where your theory has better application, but it seems that your ideas need some further development to be coherent.

"CBMP is a foot position (ie one foot in relation to the other foot), and has nothing, directly, to do with the alignment of the body in the swing dances. "

CBMP is defined as a foot position, and it's not possible to accomplish CBMP by body alignment alone without the corresponding foot position, however to be in CBMP and to also be comfortable pretty much requires that the body have an opposite side lead in relation to the feet. This is the basically the same body position that would be called a (same) side lead if we were standing on the other foot - not only would it be called that, it likely was or will be on the preceding or following step.

You get between side lead and CBMP simply by taking another step with no change in foot or body alignment or direction of travel. You establish either one by rotating the body - and rotation of the body in the direction most commonly used to create these is called CBM.

CBMP and side lead are both states that the dancer can be in, while CBM is a technique used to change state. Side lead and CBM cannot be analogous opposites any more than a noun can be the analogous opposite of a verb - which is to say it can't.

Being a foot position, is in't possible to acvhieve it AT ALL without the corresponding foot position.



Unfortunately for you, they are opposites of each other. Tip: When in a hole, stop digging.

"CBMP is defined as a foot position, and it's not possible to accomplish CBMP by body alignment alone without the corresponding foot position,

Being a foot position, is in't possible to acvhieve it AT ALL without the corresponding foot position."

It was not suggested that it was possible. However, in practice CBMP is not simply a foot position - there's also a strong implication of a compatible body position. To go along with that foot position.

Technically side leading is a body position, but there's a strong implication of a compatible foot position.

"Side lead and CBM cannot be analogous opposites any more than a noun can be the analogous opposite of a verb - which is to say it can't.

Unfortunately for you, they are opposites of each other. Tip: When in a hole, stop digging"

Would suggest you do a bit of research and then follow your own advice, as you are plainly wrong.

An action and a position cannot be analogous opposites - it is a violation of both logic and language.

It is true that CBM and side lead are in opposite directions, but the analagous opposite of side lead is CBMP - a position - not CBM which is an action.

Given that CBMP gives "the appearance of CBM having been used, but without turning the body", you need to find an alternate explanation for what you observe. CBMP is just a foot position.



No, side-leading is "opposite to CBM and is when the same side of the body moves with the stepping foot at the time of taking the step ..." Therefore, of course, as CBM is "a body action", so is side-leading.

You might find it more useful to consider that CBM is always occurs on one step only, whereas the body position achieved by a side-leading step can be effectively maintained (eg steps 2 & 3 of a Feather step), and whether the established Technique has a vocabulary sufficient to describe what is happening and WHY.



I don't think so: but equally, I don't think that continuing this bickering is getting anyone anywhere either. I'll call it a day, on this one, I think.

"CBMP is just a foot position."

By definition, yes, but by practical necessity it requires a compatible body position for comfort.

"No, side-leading is "opposite to CBM and is when the same side of the body moves with the stepping foot at the time of taking the step ..." Therefore, of course, as CBM is "a body action", so is side-leading."

No, you are misunderstanding what you are reading. It's true that side leading is in the opposite DIRECTION form CBM, but what you have dug up is the context of side leading, not literally a definition - it cannot be a definition for the simple reason that side leading is a position, not an action.

Ultimately, your confusion stems from failing to realize that side leading generally occurs not as a result of any action taken during the subject step, but instead as a result of body rotation (most often CBM) during a preceding step. That is a fact it shares with its effectively opposite analogous position, called CBMP.

"You might find it more useful to consider that CBM is always occurs on one step only"

CBM is an action, that changes which side of the body is in advance.

"whereas the body position achieved by a side-leading step"

That's your mistake - side leading is the resulting position, but CBM (or in less common cases rotation in the anti-CBM direction) is the action that causes it.

"can be effectively maintained (eg steps 2 & 3 of a Feather step)"

That's the exact example I already introduced, because it shows why you are wrong in calling side leading an action: the side in advance position achieved by the CBM on 1 is maintained during two where it is called side leading, and most of 3 where it is called CBMP. Step 1 is the action, steps 2 and 3 maintain the resulting position.

Nice try: except that what I have quoted (directly) IS the definition. Tough!



You mean to say that you dance a Feather like that? I do hope that you don't teach: please say that you don't teach...

But that's me done for this thread - really, this time.

"Nice try: except that what I have quoted (directly) IS the definition. Tough!"

No, what you found was someone's attempt to constrain the term by its context, without actually defining it.
Easy to confuse for a definition, but that's not what it is.

An actual definition of the term "side leading" would be something along the lines of "the side of the body which is in advance during a movement". If instead the term meant what you think it does, then it would be defined as "the action of rotating the moving foot side of the body into advance"... but then that's not what it means.

"the side in advance position achieved by the CBM on 1 is maintained during two where it is called side leading

You mean to say that you dance a Feather like that?"

You bet, as does everyone I can think of, because that is what a feather is about. Sure, you may see somebody who lets some additional body rotation continue beyond the formal end of step one, either out of sloppiness or to create an over dramatic position, but like most such embellishments seen today it is just that - an embellishment not requested by the formal technique, which simply has you achieve a side in advance through the action of CBM on the first step and then maintain that through a second step described as having a leading side and a third step described as being in CBMP.

Okay, I guess just to clarify this. I am a qualified instructor and I will try to answer as many questions as I can, but the last thing I want to do is confuse anyone. Asking me to explain a specific step is quite difficult when I haven't worked with any of you before and I can't even see what you're doing. Plus, different studios or independent instructors have different ways of teaching and even different names for some of the steps. I can give hints/tips and again, I will try as best as I can, but I just ask you to be patient with me. Also, if it's possible, those of you who do have a specific question about a step should ask your teacher, if you don't have one, it might be a good investment if you really love dancing.

Thank you gsharp 200, for your thoughts on heel ball steps. Now to InstructorTG. What are your thoughts on heel ball steps. It doesn't matter what style. A forward step heel-ball (rise at the end of 1)is fairly common in the scripts. How do you explain it to a beginner?