Getting back to the Feather in the Foxtrot. This is what a group of us was taught by a former British Rising Stars
Winner. He counted to eight. On the eighth beat we did our preperation step. Just one beat. Then we let the first beat go and did our heel lead on the second beat. The effect of this felt good. From then on it was as normal. Which only goes to show how the timing can be manipulated to suit. I won't even go into the alignment for the Feather Finish in the Reverse Turn or the way the timing was played around with there. If somebody was by your side doing the normal timing though, at the end of each section we would both be on the same beat.

Hi Don. your posting is very interesting. Perhaps a new thread should be started on it.
When he counted to eight, do you mean he counted 8 half beats in the bar?. Assuming this is so, the preparation step was on the last half beat in the bar, and you then said that you "did our heel lead on the second beat" - presumably this means the right heel plant occurred on the second half beat in the next bar.
Is this a resonable interpretation of your posting? And please say more about the details of the reverse turn timing. Maybe a new thread would be good, as it's becoming hard to find the new postings in this one

That's the usual way of dancing slow foxtrot. Taken absolutely literally, it gives the "mambo trot" look (2,3,4) but smoothed out so that the steps are continuous it's just right.

Phil - no, not half beats. Counting an empty measure 567 and prep on the 8, then start counting the feather 1 2(step) 3(step) 4...(step)

Hi Anon
so you are saying that the heel plant for the first step on the right foot occurs on beat 2 (that's how i'm interpreting your " 1 2(step) "etc) followed by the left foot plant on beat 3, then the right foot plant on beat 4?. I'm realising that these steps aren't necessarily exactly on these beats.
however, i would like to ask this question--- following this arrangement, how can the first step be called a slow, when the time from right foot plant to the next (left foot) plant is only 1 beat?
how much freedom does the good dancer (outside the resticted syllabus) have in comps to manipulate the standard technique book timings in this way?
I'm in the education business myself and one thing i'm a little uneasy about is this... we obviously teach graduating students diferent things from fresher students; however, we avoid at all costs teaching freshers material which will have to be 'forgotten' in graduate year.
Maybe it's because dancing is an art-form.

The time at which the foot is planted is not the defining moment in the step for purposes of the book's description. Rather the step boundaries occur when the feet pass each other, but the planting does not have to occur centered between these boundaries. Because we drift out the last step of each measure, the time between that foot passing and the one at the end of the first step of the next measure is very nearly the requisite two beats of a slow, though the time between the footfalls may not be.

Footfalls are likely at
1) a hair before beat 2
2) beat 3 exactly
3) sometime after 4

Most of the comments and analysing of the technique apears to be comlng from the mans side. The lady is just as important, and not just a mirror image of the man. If we take the first step into a Natural Turn in the Waltz for the lady. Let some of you analists give a bit of thought to the term NFR. What will happen if the lady does foot rise on one. Will she take the man's centre away from him and arrive too early with every possibility of the right foot being in the wrong place in relation to the mans step. After that maybe a look at the first step of the Feather in the Foxtrot for the lady. What would happen if the lady did foot rise there. Would it make it difficult for the man to execute his first quick correctly, or does he now have to use the strength in his arms get to where he wants to be. Men be very aware of those two places.

I've puposely avoided this topic because of the obvious disagreement there is amongst instructors and professionals as well as the judges themselves. In my teachings when I begin to tell my students about the rise and fall technique and the heel, toe, ball, up, down, blah,blah,blah, they look at me as if I am speaking in a foreign language at times. When I see this occuring and after much discussion and slowing down of their dance to accomplish what we speak about, only to have them look as if they are robots, I simply tell them to take a larger stride and as a result, the body cannot help but lower and then rise again to take another stride. Once they see that the discussion pretty much ends. Discussion with judges/pros reveals too that they are critical of other judges/pros as to their ability to rise and fall "Properly". Where does it end? Just get out there and get on with it. Let the chips fall as they may. Owen