Good Argentine Tango Dancers do not look at each other's chests. That is an excercise for beginners and it helps the lady align herself to the man and the position of his chest, something that is essential if the dancers are not in embrace. This visual isn't a source of following information except in maintaining connection. If you see a good Argentine Tango couple, the woman keeps her eyes closed with her forehead against his temple, or chest depending on height.

Belle, I know what you mean, but I think you are making a simplistic connection between 'good' dancers and close embrace. Many prefer a more open embrace, and they have no less a connection for it.

The purpose of my comment was to associate the idea of dancing with no hold at all, to an acute perception of your partner's torso, which is where 99% of any lead comes from.

Anymouse, If you have good body contact all the time, there is no opportunity to collide, and I would far rather dance with no hand hold, than with no body contact.

Practising and dancing are two different things: we do one to be able to do the other.

I wouldn't argue against the 'five contact points' principle, but interestingly the IDTA's current ballroom technique doesn't mention body contact AT ALL, except in one reference to promenade position, when it describes an alteration to something that it hasn't defined in the first place. I'm no fan of Howard's text, but that is an extraordinary omission.

I agree that good has nothing to do with embrace. I was simply trying to clarify the origin of the lead in Argentine. It's extravegently subtle and it can take a long time to learn and it does come from the core, just not really visually. I could just see novices out on the floor trying to watch each other's chest instead of learning the true art, part of that is in the intensity or softness of the lead which can only be communicated through physical contact.

I completely believe that if anyone wants to really learn to lead and follow they should take on Argentine. It will change the way they dance.

I think that we could readily agree that the lead comes from the core in AT. Subtle? Yes, in the hands of an advanced dancer, but on the whole? Well the average standard is pretty modest, generally, and I think that focussing on the leader's chest is actually a step UP from what generally happens: the arms are used, particularly to signal rotation, which brings me right back to the beginning of this topic, and the assertion that that's not what they're for in any dance style.

Interestingly, I constantly find more similarities than differences between AT and Ballroom (so I go against the trend), and would say that the lead in both works in exactly the same way, fundamentally. The differences arise from the particular style requirements, and the actions, typical of each dance.

The "lead " in T/ Arg. may also be led thru the hands and arms ( as in a Salida ).

It depends on WHAT is being led. In addition, the lady sometimes initiates lead .

To add a little more confusion.. it also depends on the "style " one chooses to dance..

The approach to Tango Nuevo and a Milonga style , are conceptually different in some respects ( particularly the embrace ).

I Agree leading is all about body
movement, and you can use your other
hand to perform underarm turns.