""do you still think the weight-in-heel stage should be skipped on a forwad TH step?

If so, how can you reconcile the two?"

Yes, I do. Though 'skipped' is a loaded word. It's more that it is just plain unnecessary and detrimental to quality movement.

The point of this whole discussion is not about bringing into question the lady's weight moving back as the man's weight moves forward. It's very specifically about where the weight is in the foot, or the point of pressure into the floor, for man and lady at a specific point in time in a continuous movement. And whether this point of pressure needs to move back to heel for the man for the 'sake' of the lady, a point you are trying to argue. I'm saying based on how the lady's weight collection works in general, and for the TH steps as well, the man does not have to move this point of pressure from the ball of foot back to heel on the weight collection. It unnecessarily impacts the forward progression."

Rha, unless I'm mistaken you've agreed that the lady's weight moving back is linked to the man's weight moving forward.

While it would be very unwise for the man to let his weight move backwards in a forward action, I'm still trying to understand how you can have the lady's weight still forwards if the man starts with his weight forwards. Once the man's weight is forwards the lady should go back.

I have a suspicion that if you are seeing ladies let their weight go back to quickly, this may actually be an appropriate response to your lowering with your weight already forwards in your toe, instead of letting your weight initially arrive into your heel and then moving it forwards.

Again, if you take your full weight on the toe before lowering you have already over run the heel and cannot naturally lower to it - you've missed the chance to. But if you merely apply pressure with the toe as you rapidly lower the foot, the first full support of body weight will be in the heel. From there you and your partner can make a coordinated progress of your weight through your feet.

I've been reading back over some of the earlier posts, and early on Suomy wrote in reference to moving out from a whisk into a chassis - specifically the man's left foot being placed on beat 3 and then moving out on step 1 into the chassis:
"""The footwork for the step asks you to stand on your heel.

However, you must not move from your toe back to your heel against the direction of travel. So you must lower to the heel before your weight has a chance to fully arrive to the toe. You will have pressure into the toe before you lower, but you won't reach the point of being balanced over the toe. After you lower your weight will fully touch down in the heel, then move forward to the toe after the next step has begun.""""

So initially there is pressure on the toe, then when you lower, all this pressure will disappear because the weight will 'fully touch down in the heel'.
You cannot do this without sitting back, I don't believe this can be done from an open telemark either.

Are you still insisting that the requirement T-H means 100% of weight in the heel? You don't think that the heel can be lowered, yet there is still pressure on the toes because the weight is kept forward even with the heel lowered?. Remember we're talking about left foot on beat 3 in a whisk, or in open promenade. Please don't go on about other variations or combinations of steps or discussions about the negative effects of orthotics. Let's stick to the original starting question and responses.

What's the record for the highest number of posts for one topic?

To whome it may concern. I hope we are still discusing the the lowering of the left foot for man after a Chasse following a Promenade Position. Asked by ModernDancer at the beginning All we needed was a simple TH as the weight arrives on the fourth step lower and bend the knee as your heel lowers to the floor , which is a continuation of the movement ready for the next step. Dancing is hard enough without making it any harder. Not picking on anyone in particular. Start to read your own comments starting from a completely ignorant position.You know nothing otherwise why would the question be asked in the first place. Now read on, or get your next of kin to give it a go.

Hi Don
This is the original question:
""Hi Guys,
when does the heel lower or touch the floor for a fwd step with the left after a promenade position with rise (both feet)

thanks""

That's what i've been trying to talk about. I wish i hadn't mentioned the 'keep your weight forward' thing - i was trying to be helpful, because in the past i sat back on such steps until it was beaten out of me (only figuratively of course). As often happens, discussions ramble onto other things, but that's no harm, as we might learn something. I believe golfers suffer from the same affliction.

Phil. There was an after thought by ModernDancer in which he said it was a Chasse from Promenade .

Phil.It might be worth discussing the most used and most abused step and that is the Natural Spin Turn. Step four is a Pivot. At the end of the Pivot the weight must be over the LF. This allows us to do a step on five rising at the end of onto two toes when we place step six. Moral of this is step five is a step coming after a Pivot and is not a part of step four. What brought this to mind was the weight distribution that is being discussed. I'm sure Ra and Suomynona and yourself might like to answer. Where is the weight of the body as the Pivot is turned. Is it over the heel or not.

It would have been much easier to understandthat being that the step is taken slightly forward. If it had been said that the heel is off the floor with the toe in contact with the floor passing the weight over from the heel to a toe lower.Of course the weight is going to pass over the heel it can't do anything else but. Have any of you experimented with the three different timings that can be used. 1 2and 3.
1 and 2 3. 1 2 3 and. The last one has a good feel about it.

I should have added for heavens sake keep a straight spine and stay verticle with the head looking left. Ladies head to the right for one step only unless the next figure is an Open Promenade Turn.

I don't know what is being taught or how it could be explained in a book. This is as we are taught regardless of who goes backward. Waltz. Lower at the end of three with an and count. On that count the, man in this case, will release the the LF and extent it a few inches. Then extend it to its full stride. The lady at the end of three ,her feet are parallel. Done any other way will cause the person going back to be pushed . That's if all four feet are parallel at the end of three.
Does that make sense to anyone. If not have a look at your instruction tapes. It's there to see' Happy Landing.