"No we don't all agree
"""Quote RF to the side across the LOD page 175.""""

THe alignment is the foot alignment, not the body alignment, nor the direction of travel of your centre."

So where is the disagreement?

Several days ago Serendipity was misreading people's quoting of the book alignment as if it were the direction movement rather than the foot alignment and taking people to task for allegedly wanting to move to DW, but he seems to have finally realized that this was his misunderstanding and not what anyone had actually advocated.

I don't particularly like the way he put his latest description, but I don't see any real conflict between the substance of Serendipity's latest, the book description, and yours.

"Here's a simple question. When you have your right foot placed on the reverse turn, and your weight is roughly evenly distributed between the feet (i know, it doesn't stop there, but this instant would be before your left foot passes the right), what would be your body alignment? Backing LOD?"

The foot alignment which is what is given in the books is backing DW. The body alignment is a somewhat different question. I've posted in the past about how most leading teachers request you to execute reverse turning movements, but it's not something that seems to be understandable by those who haven't worked with them in person.

In more general terms, the "always have a side left to swing" principle (aka windup) suggests that the body itself is unlikely to catch up to the feet and be squarely backing the LOD until midway into the CBM of the feather finish.

Just a correction here. The 6th step of a Reverse Turn Foxtrot is in CBMP not CBM. If you think that step four is only just straightening up from an underturned Reverse. Think again.
Quote. Step three is continue to turn on RF and step LF back. Step four. RF back down the LOD.
Why would the writter of the technique book put at the beginning. Step across the LOD and a few lines below contradict himself.
Forget that and tell me does Marcus Hilton and Jonathan appear to you to pause when their back is backing diagnal to wall. Yes or No will do.
Another mistake is when you said The foot aligment is given in the book as backing diagonal to the wall. Does it say that ??.
Another mistake is not getting the body weight onto that RF. This is not a Waltz where the foot is placed to the side and then the weight of the body is moved onto it with Swing. In the Foxtrot the weight is passed over imediately to the RF.
Paragraph 4. You must be getting me confused with somebody else.
Now understand this. In the case of a Walk Forward or Backwards. The time value of the step is not complete untill the moving foot is drawn up to the standing foot. So step two is not finished untill the left foot is drawn up to the RF. You would be in a big underturned Reverse if you completed step two backing diagonal to the wall.
General Notes. Do not let the third step swing outwards. Keep it well behind the body. Page 175.
I think we can put this one to bed now. All you need to do is go and look, and if your not too far gone... Copy

Serendipidy, it would be nice to put this one to bed, but you keep opening a new can of worms just when I think we have some agreement.

1) There is no correction to be made. Nobody mentioned step 6. The CBM is used on step 1 of the feather finish (step 4 of the reverse turn with feather finish). The amount of residual body turn Anonymouse hints at is very small, but maybe enough to make the difference between 1st and 2nd place in a comp, depending on the adjudicators preferences. There was no suggestion of underturnng the reverse.

2) "Another mistake is when you said The foot alignment is given in the book as backing diagonal to the wall. Does it say that ??."
Alex Moore may not say that explicitly, but he also admits to using the term alignment to mean several things. Remember that Alex Moore's book is not used by any society for its syllabus or exam reference. As I mentioned before, all the official technique books do give the alignment as backing DW.

3) Do Jonathan or Marcus pause when backing DW? No of course not when they are dancing, just as they do not pause anywhere else. However, when they took their exams then they will have paused at that point, before describing and demonstrating the next step, continually describing then show each step.

4)"In the Foxtrot the weight is passed over immediately to the RF."
Which book did you find that in!?

5)"Quote. Step three is continue to turn on RF and step LF back." and later "So step two is not finished until the left foot is drawn up to the RF."
So, if step 2 is ended backing LOD, and step 3 continues to turn on the RF, which way does the LF step back? and how do we get step 4 back down LOD? The chances are we will see the very common fault of the RF going back DC.


To return to your earlier post, I would agree with the principle of what I think you are trying to say, but not with the phrase you use. As the reverse turn is danced the man moves from facing DC (even with body facing LOD if allowing for CBMP on a preceding feather) to backing LOD in one continuous movement but not "in one go". That expression implies an almost instantaneous turn, which is not what the books say and it is not what top dancers do because it is not in keeping with the smooth flow of foxtrot. The choice of expression is very important and that is why the panel of editors that compile the dance technique manuals take so long to update them, and still they make mistakes.

Serendipity inexplicable wrote:

"Just a correction here. The 6th step of a Reverse Turn Foxtrot..."

Correction to WHAT? Nowhere in the 3 pages of this thread has their been any previous mention of the sixth step of the reverse turn. Who are you really replying to? Are you carrying on a debate with your imaginary friend?

"You would be in a big underturned Reverse if you completed step two backing diagonal to the wall."

Who suggested that step 2 would be completed backing diagonal to wall?

It's been pointed out to you time and time again in this thread that no one is suggesting that you have that alignment at that point in time, but you perversely keep pretending that someone has suggested it. No one has.

Let us make this simple shall we. When I move from Facing diagonal to the center to backing LOD that is 3/8ths of a turn. I will pass every point of the compass. I will not stop half way. The foot positions which appear to contradict what is written in the same book are a continuous movement of the feet and the body and do not contradict when it says that step two is taken across the LOD.
There still seems to be an inability to watch and to understand the vido examples given. Are they correct or not. Are their alignments correct or not. Don't let us have a smoke screen. Stick to the facts that we can all see from the videos.
Which of you wrote that the foot alignment is given in the book as backing DW and that the body alignment is a somewhat different position. For their information the feet are always underneath your body. Anticipating that some person will say what about the step to the side in the Waltz. If you stand up straight the feet are still under the body. Even if I was upside down my feet are still under my body.
If squarely backing the LOD untill midway into the CBM of the Feather Finish is not refering to step six ( 4 5 6 is the Feather Finish ) what is it refering to.
Back to the videos. None of you opponents are game enough to give an answer. Are the video examples correct or not. It's a very simple question.

"Which of you wrote that the foot alignment is given in the book as backing DW and that the body alignment is a somewhat different position."

Nobody but you. Your statement is not only critically different from what I suspect insipired it, the difference makes it pure nonsense: a body alignment is NOT a position.

"For their information the feet are always underneath your body. "

That's a position, not an alignment. A difference in the timing of rotation between the body and feet produces a difference in body alignment vs. foot alignment, not a difference in body position vs. foot position.

Your problem is that you still mix up three very distinct variables:

1) Alignment
2) Position
3) Direction of movement

Because you keep mixing these up, you keep thinking that others have said things which we haven't.

"If squarely backing the LOD untill midway into the CBM of the Feather Finish is not refering to step six ( 4 5 6 is the Feather Finish ) what is it refering to."

Obviously it refers to step four, which is the CBM step immediately following the step 3 that was being discussed. It could not by any stretch of the imagination have referred to step 6, because in a reverse turn the CBM steps are steps 1, 4, and 7, but not 6.

By the way, the comment was

"unlikely to catch up to the feet and be squarely backing the LOD until midway into the CBM of the feather finish."

When you chopped off the beginning you reversed the meaning.