"I don1t think that you or anyone else can clearly demarcate what you describe as a class of any specifity at all."

Actually, I can. All of my posts in this line of argument have been about the specific class of situation where the instructor appears to be teaching well, but what they are teaching does not include the information that would enable the student to practically dance.

"The worst teacher that I1ve ever had at least knew her fundamentals."

What I1ve discovered is that some relatively respected teachers turn out actually not to. That1s the problem that I am addressing here - teachers who give the impression of expertise, but turn out to not actually know their subject. You would not think that they could survive, but with the right mix of other skills, roles and connections, they do.

And my point is that they way you can avoid these fakes is to look at a potential teacher1s students collectively - if they are ALL struggling to dance, it does not suggest good things about that teacher.

I guess i have the best perspective having been trained in the UK and worked for both chains in all capacities .

The prestige of the English soc. has always carried more " weight " .
Having been an Examiner in the States for many yrs, its fair to say , that in many cases, teachers were well schooled, but, not all.

larger metro areas have had access to better training in many cases . The problem lies more in the " life "span of the staff, of which many are not around long enough to develop their talents.
As to DVIDA, am not familiar with their syllabus, but have been told its comparable to most others .

They took the conventional syllabi and made a few changes to justify the purchase of their videos.

I have nothing against Dance Vision (even though they messed up most of the orders that I gave them). DV is a good source for many dance-related materials and I have purchased several videos and CDs from them.

For an authority on ballroom, however, I'll stick with USISTD and IDTA.



jj

the person i have had the most success with as an outside coach has no certification from any of the istd type of organizations. he has a teaching degree in secondary education. his ability to relate the knowledge he has from dancing for twenty years is far beyond anyone else that i have experienced many of whom have much more dance experience than he, he learned how to teach which is more important to me than anything else.

Oh, My Goodness! I have opened a gaint can of worms!! Because all the factors that are mentioned in earlier text, I now realize that it is like any other field of study/employment.
We have 4 different teachers,
#1 for fun/social dance (all types)
#2 Is a credentialed competition instructor
#3 is a Salsa/Latin that trains all over and just shares for fun.
#4 Is a Argentine Instructor (from NY)that is a Dr. friend of my Scotty Boy
Everybody, has something to offer us! For all different applications of dance, and varying reasons. Just thought there might be a credential/certification that is far superior. I can learn from anyone, almost anything, even if they are a dreadful teacher!! Thanks, All you guys, just rock!! It is awesome to know that any question, I might have (no matter how trivial)I can get a broad spectrum advice/opinions.(Even if you boys disagree.) Hugs for everyone, from Doll in Texas! Thanks, ScottyBoysDoll

You certainly don't need our help.

Looks like you're going to be fine.

Quit worrying about the quality of your teachers. With that many different instructors, you'll soon figure out which of them are good and which aren't.

Be careful and don't overdo it. I've seen many gung-ho amateurs overwork themselves into injuries.



jj

Ok, the last week in October we took totally off-no dancing! As far, as my teachers (all four) Just a example:
I was taught a basic bronze step, and the technique was not correct, so now the Comp. teacher came in and said this way is proper. So, Then I have to re-train my body & brain to correct it. I guess I just want to learn everything correctly from the start- so there is no correcting. I just wanted to see if there is a way to guarentee that the step is 100% correct w/ technique & all. I thought a good certified teacher would get it correct everytime! So,that is why I ask the original question-(50 replies ago) Is any certification better than another. Thanks, ScottyBoysDoll

Postscript: You boys sure can go off on a tangent. I love a lively discussion-you can really see how much knowledge you all have-and your personalities and passion for dance.

It's a very valid question.

If you queried all twelve finalists at a world professional championship about executing a particular figure, you'd get twelve different answers with lots of agreement as well as plenty of variances.

That's why ballroom is a judged event in competitions. As Terence would no doubt say, it's an art and not a science even though it can be "scientific."



"Passion for Dance"! What a lovely label for the can of WHOOPASS that I just opened on poor anymouse. He can't lead, you know.

Your graciousness always enlightens these boards. I wish that I had some.



jj

I think you are confusing "Qualifications", with experience .

Its fair to say, that no certif. guarantees quality teaching. As has been stated, it demonstrates product knowledge.

The skills of explanation and the understanding of why things do or do not work ( theory ) are not always present in all teachers . The majority of newly qualif. teachers are more apt to be technically adapt ( from the book ) but have not yet learned how to resolve more complex issues in a partnership .

As JJ stated, there are differing opinions on certain specifics in dance, and evaluating the right and wrong, can be confusing .

Dance is a science that becomes ( we hope ) an art form .

Let me pass on this piece of wisdom from a World class coach (Scrivener ).. he said ( ad hoc ) " dont get hung up on your feet and forget how to dance " .

I'm still right.

However, Terence's response raises a question. Is judging more scientific or artistic and should it be so?



jj