H.HT. Keeping the thread short. I would imagine that after the step has been taken we are finished with any further reference to it. Therefore on a heel the heel stays down untill the step is gone. On a HT it doesn't.Who cares anyway.

"H.HT. Keeping the thread short. I would imagine that after the step has been taken we are finished with any further reference to it. Therefore on a heel the heel stays down untill the step is gone."

Yes, or if dancing with modern degree of lowering in the previous action you would still be quite down at this point, which would probably keep your heel down quite a ways into the next step. Of course it will rise before the new heel strikes. The teacher who taught me about this whole area of the technique - someone you frequently cite (though often misleadingly) refers to it as the only one heel at a time rule.

"On a HT it doesn't."

Exactly

"Who cares anyway."

You apparently cared about it yesterday when you were trying to argue against it...

Why care about techinque at all? Well, because if you did it right you would ultimately be a better dancer. True, technique is no substitute for putting your heart into it. But then energy with no finesse is only fun to watch for so long, too.

If it is in the book which has stood since the book was published on 1936 then I didn't argue against it. Prior to 1936 there were already many papers and pamphlets on how the steps should be done dating back to before Victor Silvester introduced the Natural Turn.
In 1910 Waltz music was supreme, the old Rotary Waltz was fighting for its life and a fiece battle was raging between the old stagers and the younger generation of those days how the music should be interpreted by the dancers.
Very interesting. In 1918 the Waltz took a dive and was seldom played at dances. Many dancers used Foxtrot Steps to a Waltz tune.
In 1922 Maxwell Stewert introduced the Double Reverse Spin,and in the same year saw the end of the Cross Behind step in the Foxtrot and the Feather Step was born.
I have put these statments in for the benifit of those who seem to think a technque book is some sort of burden. If it hadn't been for books like this we possibly wouldn't be dancing as we do today.

"If it is in the book which has stood since the book was published on 1936 then I didn't argue against it. "

But you did indeed argue against it. Just two days ago, you were arguing that the heel had to rise at the end of the step, no earlier and no later, on all heel leads.

Now you realize that the book actually gives you two different actions for two different heel lead footworks.

It doesn' t matter if it is going to be another heel or a toe
Going to a TH from a T is different. Going from a TH to a H the action remains. Very hard to do but never the less.
So where are there three different forward steps and on what pages.

"Going from a TH to a H the action remains."

The most common difference is this:

Going from a TH towards a H, the standing heel WILL NOT RISE UNTIL *AFTER* the feet pass.

Going from a HT towards a T, the standing heel will RISE BEFORE THE FEET PASS.

Going from HT towards HT, with zero rise and fall and at a medium altitude - in other words, doing the walk written in the book, the HEEL WILL RISE EXACTLY AS THE FEET PASS.

Stop trying to making the writting fit your steps, it will never work.
Going from a heel to a heel lead. The heel of the passing foot will be past the toe of the standing foot before the heel of the sanding foot leaves the floor.
As it is written. Quote page 9. As the RF passes the toe of the LF.
The way you have written going from a HT to a T you are incorrectly rising on the step and not the end of the step. Try it both ways. You will soon realise which one is correct.
To sum up. Two of your comments are as I have been trying to instill into you from way back. This time you have only one wrong. Well actually that is not exactly right. In your last paragraph you are lifting your heel from the floor too early. Stay on the standing leg longer. The foot has past.
There is no need to change the action of the step whether it be a H. H. or H to a Toe.

" Going from a heel to a heel lead. The heel of the passing foot will be past the toe of the standing foot before the heel of the sanding foot leaves the floor.
As it is written. Quote page 9. As the RF passes the toe of the LF."

First off, you've MISQUOTED YET AGAIN. The actual word is "as", IT DOES NOT SAY "BEFORE" at all!!!

Second, you didn't pay any attention to my comment of yesterday. To refresh your memory, here is what is said:

"Going from HT towards HT, with zero rise and fall and at a medium altitude - in other words, doing the walk written in the book, the HEEL WILL RISE EXACTLY AS THE FEET PASS."

In other words, I already pointed out the the SPECIFIC SITUATON DESCRIBED IN THE BOOK will have - ready for this - precisly the action described in the book. Imagine that!

But there are OTHER SITUATIONS WHICH HAVE DIFFERENT DETAILS - again from the same post which you completely misread:

Going from a TH towards a H, the standing heel WILL NOT RISE UNTIL *AFTER* the feet pass.

Going from a HT towards a T, the standing heel will RISE BEFORE THE FEET PASS.

And - the one that's going to really confuse you as you still don't understand the geometry: Going from a Heel to a HT, at a lowered altittude (such as between a feather and a three step), the standing heel will stay down UNTIL AFTER the feet have passed. Because the body will be much lower than in the walking exercise, the standing foot must stay flat longer - pick up the heel earlier, and you will not be making full use of the foot. As you well know the rise in this situaion does not begin until the second heel lead step.

"The way you have written going from a HT to a T you are incorrectly rising on the step and not the end of the step."

No, I am doing it properly, AS SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCTED _IN PERSON_ BY ONE OF THE VERY TEACHERS YOU LOVE TO MISQUOTE. Someone you have obviously never actually talked or danced with, or your wouldn't be so horribly misrepresenting his teaching.

"To sum up. Two of your comments are as I have been trying to instill into you from way back."

No, my comment is an accurate restatment of the book, while yours is a prejudiced misquote - you can't resist chaning "as" to "before" to try to back up your wrong ideas.,

"In your last paragraph you are lifting your heel from the floor too early. Stay on the standing leg longer. The foot has past."

I am staying on my standing leg long after this - what is happening is that I am picking up my heel at the proper time to CREATE AN UPSWING ACTION USING THE STANDING LEG. I didn't make this up... the basic idea of it is in the book, and it's a major point in the private lesson offerings of a number of the world's most sought after teachers. Fail to do it, and your error will be pointed out.

"There is no need to change the action of the step"

I'm not changing anyting - I am dancing the proper and unique footwork for EACH UNIQUE SITUATION. It is by trying to force fit one uniform way to every situation that you whitewash the true characteristics of the dance and change them into a bland nothing.

At the end of the step. Not half way through or at the beginning the supporting heel will leave the floor .
Rise at the end of step one. Not when the moving foot is level. But as it passes the toe of the supporting foot the heel will begin to rise.I think I will end this discussion. You just have not the experience to understand. I have asked for quotes repeatedly and got none at all. Not one that I can remember. No where will you find anything that even slightly suggests that the weight is imbalanced and that we fall onto the following step. This includes the lady according to your writting. Absolute rubbish.
Signing off

"At the end of the step. Not half way through or at the beginning the supporting heel will leave the floor ."

Depending on the NATURE OF THE SPECIFIC STEP BEING PERFORMED, it MAY NEED TO HAPPEN EARLIER OR LATER.

One again, you IGNORE THE OBVIOUS DIFFERENCES BETWEEN VARIOUS TYPES OF STEPS.

"Rise at the end of step one."

In general terms. But to commence the rise at the end of step one, the heel will need to be lifting slightly before the end. This is what creates upswing, as you would well know if you bothered to study with teachers having any real expertise.

"You just have not the experience to understand."

Unlike you, I seek out the best teachers alive anywhere in the world, and then spend entire lessons discussion specifics such as these. Wheras you are content to misread your book. You've never actually discussed any of this in person with any of the leading teachers... wheras I do so regularly.

"Absolute rubbish."

If that's how you choose to characterize the teaching of the Blackpool champions who are training the current champions, well... best you find a new hobby...