"The shoulders are square there is no mention of the man shaping to the left at all."

There's not written mention of a whole laundry list of important dance concepts.

As for the shoulders being square, of course they are. Left stretch should never destroy basic elements of the hold - if you think it does, you still haven't figured out what the left stretch is about. You keep pointing out errors that have absolutely nothing to do with the necessary left stretch - you're right, they would be bad things to do, but they are NOT the left stretch hose necessity has been pointed out here.

"If the man shifts his weight to his left or right foot the whole body moves onto that foot."

Yes. Stretch has nothing to do with the position of the weight. How many times must I post that sentance before you will comprehend it?

"Ever tried dancing in the middle of the two feet. I saw a demonstration of this only a few weeks ago. The instruction was on how not to balance."

Okay, it can have it's merits. But how will you utilize this while one foot is moving? Will you carry your weight on the moving foot, sliding it across the floor? Some do... but it's such as silly thing to do that everyone outgrows it.

"I would very much appreciate if you can tell me exactly where or who instructed you regarding the man shaping to the left."

Every quality dancer I have studied with... it's as simple as that.

Anonymous. There are three main body positions after the step is in place in the Rumba and the Cha. Actually Slavik says there are a million positions that the body goes through. This is mention on his DVD call Inovation Rumba and Inovation Cha Cha. Do you understand that the step has been taken and the body keeps going forward to the point of imbalance where the next step has to be taken. The step is quite small but put into place very snappily. It has to be or one might fall on ones face.

"Anonymous. There are three main body positions after the step is in place in the Rumba and the Cha. Actually Slavik says there are a million positions that the body goes through. This is mention on his DVD call Inovation Rumba and Inovation Cha Cha. Do you understand that the step has been taken and the body keeps going forward to the point of imbalance where the next step has to be taken. The step is quite small but put into place very snappily. It has to be or one might fall on ones face."

Quickstep, some people dance rumba that way and some don't.

However as the thread is about waltz, and you insist that you are capable of dancing that without going off balance, please inform us how it is that you accomplish this superhuman feat.

Please see "2: Extension" in the forward walk in the learning center and explain how you would handle that.

Would you avoid this position by holding your weight back until after your moving foot has found its final placement (mistaken choice #1) ?

Would you slide part of your weight on the moving foot (what the avatar appears to be doing, but mistaken choice #2) ?

Would you take very small steps (not a mistake, but limiting?)

You still haven't answered...

Anonymous. Are we talking about the same thing here. If I stretch my left side I will sway to my right. Heres one for you. This is good practice. Get a small hand towell about 28 inches long. Fold it and put it around your neck. Hold with both hands keeping the elbows at the height they would be if you were dancing. Do your routine holding that towel. It becomes easy to understand CBMP sway or whatever with this prop. Both shoulders will turn an equal amount. It will teach you how to turn both shoulders on a Back Lockstep or a V Six in the Quickstep. If you do a Feather Step and shape to your left you will see the error of your ways as you also try swaying to your right at the same time.There is no left stretch in a normal dance hold. Heaven only knows where you got that one from. As I said show me. Either put up shut up writting about something you know nothing about. Just look back on what you have written which is left stretch. As I have said to stretch my left side will cause a shift to the right. But that's not what you meant is it. Previously it has been called shape. There is no shape to the left for the man.

"Anonymous. Are we talking about the same thing here. If I stretch my left side I will sway to my right."

Apparently not! Left stretch does not imply anything about sway.

Let me go back to the couple in the line and make a simpler observation of the same issue: the man's left side is too open, because the lady is more to the left than he is.

Correcting this would have nothing to do with sway, or position of the weight.

"It becomes easy to understand CBMP sway "

What is "CBMP sway" ???

CBMP and sway are different aspects of dance body position. And you can't write any general rule about which direction of sway might work better with CBMP, because that depends on which direction you are moving (sway against movement generally works better than sway into movement)

"Both shoulders will turn an equal amount."

Obviously - but what will they turn relative to, and when?

"If you do a Feather Step and shape to your left you will see the error of your ways as you also try swaying to your right at the same time."

No problem at all. Shape and sway are not the same thing. How many times do I have to repeate that? You can't understand the left stretch I am talking about, because you keep imagining that it is something that it is not.

"There is no left stretch in a normal dance hold."

Yes there is. But you don't understand that, because you keep mistaken the necessary left stretch for other things - most of which would indeed be severe mistakes so you are quite right in not wanting to do them. But they are not the left stretch that is necessary.

"As I have said to stretch my left side will cause a shift to the right."

If it causes you to shift to the right, it is not the proper left stretch. A proper left stretch does not move your body weight. A proper left stretch does not inline your arms. If you attempts at left stretch produce these results, then either leave it out for now or seek in person professional help.

Anonymous. I'm not sure if you are on about the Waltz Rumba or Foxtrot. We will take the later. If you use your body weight to carry you forward onto the step you are not using the feet and ankles of the standing foot. Simple excercise. Stand with one foot forward and the other behind, with your weight over the rear foot. Now roll onto the front foot by using your feet and ankles of the back foot. There will be an extension of the front foot caused by the drive off the back foot, the knees at this point will have straightend. When your weight arrives over the front foot without closing the feet do the same in reverse. Bit like a rocking action. This is used by many as a warm up prior to going onto the floor. Does that answer your question.

Anonymous. Part 2. There is only one way to do a Rumba Forward Walk. The only difference would be the different heights. Or some have thicker thighs than others and so on. Hint . Don't have a gap between the thighs. If you have it is most likely caused by the none turn out of the feet which should be at 5 to 1 at all times. How to move off the standing foot without going off balance. Again the step has been taken. the weight is still on the standing foot which is now raising to the toe which in turn sends the body over the front foot.The rear toe is turned out along with the front toe. We do not skate in Latin. There is lots more concerning the use of the hips which never stop moving. Also how to get into a neutral position in between Walks on an and count. I'm afraid you've come to the wrong person if you want to argue Latin. Any questions that I am not sure of I can find out for you on Sundays from a former 7th in the world professional. Hint. In the book it says ball flat. But for years the inside egde of the big toe is used , then flat.

Anonmymous. If your stretch to the left does not alter your arm line or your balance. Then why do you even bother with something which you are saying alters nothing.does that make sense.I wouldn 't need a teacher, one of us needs a psychiatrist and it isn't me. I would say that at sometime in the past your teacher thought you and your partners heads were too close. So for you only he said, pull a little to the left. Now you are trying to apply this to everybody who dances when the problem is your partner and you knee capping each other.

"Anonmymous. If your stretch to the left does not alter your arm line or your balance. Then why do you even bother with something which you are saying alters nothing."

Oh, it most certainly alters - or should I say enables - something. Specifically, connection of coordination with the partner. To dance in an offset hold, your personal body position cannot be symmetric - instead, it must have a leftward bias. Not a tilt. Not a lean. Not a displacement of the weight. But a bias to how the body is configured relative to its own center of weight - and by extension, relative to the partner. You each stretch and look forward and to the left - past each other.

"I wouldn 't need a teacher"

Like most of us, you probably will need a teacher to learn to do this - and to keep it free of the potential pitfalls you expressed justified concern about in previous posts. There are many improper things a left stretch could accidentally bring with it - but they are mistakes, not this essential element.

Anonymous. Well what do you know, one of those 20 years old went straight from the Ametuer Ranks to a place in the Professional Final on Friday at the International at the Alber Hall. I think you called them Juveniles or was it Junior.
What makes you think that height as anything to do with the angle of the shin to the floor. It wouldn't matter if you were 6 feet or 5 or the size of the feet either.
Did I answer all your questions.. One for you. Look at a chart from the technique book Waltz Reverse Turn will do. Hold it to a mirror and what do you see. You will see a Natural Turn. What does that prove.