"Anonymos. Find a teacher who has had international experience and ask them. I think you will find they will suggest that the person on the inside holds their position untill the person on the outside swings past."

No, they will not suggest that as an ultimate fact to serious students, because it is completely unworkable for the inside person to stay in position if the outside one is going to achieve championship-scale swing, the inside one must also swing, albeit in a smaller movement.

Advice to stay in place would only be given to serious students as a corrective overstatement to someone who is moving too far on the inside - if they actually did manage stay in place, the teacher would tell them not to take it literally, but merely to make an appropriately small movement fitting to the needs of their partner.

You have an amazingly short memory - you lost this very same argument just last week, when you had been insisting that Melissa remained in position over her standing foot while placing step two, right up until it was pointed out to you the specific frame in the video that showed her body had in fact moved some distance away from the foot she was standing on. Confronted with the evidence you dropped the issue, but now you raise it again somehow hoping all is forgotton - well, it's not, except perhaps by you.

A skilled dancer simply does not stop on the inside of an ordinary turn - they slow, but they do not stop. Stopping, if ever advised, is merely a stopgap measure for beginners who have not yet learned to move slowly enough when on the inside of turn. Also their partner will probably not be able to make a very big swing on the outside yet. But with today's movement, it is imperative that the person on the inside keeps moving as well, for if they did not they would be a dead anchor severely limiting how far their partner could move. Maybe you are personally content to dance that way, but the rest of us know better.

"Copied from the book. Natural V. Waltz."

You won't find any mention of swing for either partner there, and certainly no mention of pausing.

"And you are telling me that there
is swing on step 5."

Yes, there most certainly is, but it takes some skill to know how to apply it.

Anonymous. If you do as the instructions say
On step 4 you are backing LOD.
Step 5 point RF DC
Step 6 Close Still facing DC
With that alignment and footwork you couldn't possibly Swing Why would it be necessary especially with no foot rise allowed.

"Anonymous. If you do as the instructions say
On step 4 you are backing LOD.
Step 5 point RF DC
Step 6 Close Still facing DC
With that alignment and footwork you couldn't possibly Swing Why would it be necessary especially with no foot rise allowed."

Think about it this way: if you do not move on the inside of the turn, then you must be rotating in place. If you rotate in place, then the part of your body on one side of the axis of rotation advanced while the part of your body on the other side must move against the nominal direction of travel. Such retrograde movement is strictly prohibited, even when attempting smaller beginner sized movements. The result is that everyone must move at least enough that the rotation doesn't have either side of their torso moving against the direction of travel.

At an advanced level, it's necessary to move even more on the inside of the turn, because the partner on the outside is going to want to move not just enough to pass us, but enough to pass us AND move both halves of the couple down the floor. If we did not move, we would constrain them to move no more than past us, which would be severely limiting compared to the size of movements routinely achieved by good dancers.

To refute your other argument, swing does not require foot rise. There is for example swing on the inside of heel turns - even for the man, who has neither foot rise nor body rise when he is on the inside of a heel turn. You could for example look at that Hilton basic waltz video, where you will see Karen swing the inside of a natural on the first measure, and then Marcus swing the inside of an impetus on the second. You personally might not swing in those circumstances, but a dancer of their level certainly does!

Anonymous. You have just put yourself on the spot here. You are now saying that the lady swings and then the man swings in that order. Which is no to people swinging at the same time. Even then you've got it back to front,

"Anonymous. You have just put yourself on the spot here. You are now saying that the lady swings and then the man swings in that order."

I said nothing of the sort!

If you had actually watched the video, or thought about the meaning of the word "inside" in the message of mine that you were responding to, you would instantly realize that at the very same time while Karen swings the inside of of the turn on the first measure, Marcus is swinging further than her on the outside. And then at the very same time when Marcus swings the inside on measure two, Karen is swinging further than him on the outside. There you have it - both dancers swinging at the SAME time.

There simply is no pause and wait by either partner in ordinary swing figures when they are fully danced by by experts. Instead, both bodies are in continuous movement throughout.

Anonymous. page 19.
5. A backward step on the RF followed by a side step on the LF which is taken on the Toe would be.
1. Toe Heel 2. Toe. This indicates that the Right Heel is still on the floor untill the LF has been placed in position on the toe.
Do you still think the person on the inside Swings into position.
Pleaser explain RH still on the floor untill the LT has been placed into position.
Natural Turn . Same technique.

Perhaps what would be useful here is to get some definitions of swing (incuding both upswing and downswing), flight (and their relation to rise and fall). Anymouse and Polished could you oblige.

"Anonymous. page 19.
5. A backward step on the RF followed by a side step on the LF which is taken on the Toe would be.
1. Toe Heel 2. Toe. This indicates that the Right Heel is still on the floor untill the LF has been placed in position on the toe.
Do you still think the person on the inside Swings into position."

Yes, most certainly you use swing on the inside of turns when fully dancing, as that Hilton video would have clearly shown you if you had bothered to actually watch it.

Your mistake is in thinking that swing always has something to do with footwork. But swing is not a foot action, it's a body action. In some cases that body action influences the footwork, in others such as the inside of the turn the footwork is the same regardless if you are an advanced couple dancing fully with both partners swinging proportionally together or dancing as a beginner might, which is to say pausing and waiting for your partner rather than swinging at the same time as them.

Oh dear. I will have to dig up once again John Wood's instructions on inside and outside of turn and who takes the big step and who takes the small. And what happens if this is not done correctly.

"Oh dear. I will have to dig up once again John Wood's instructions on inside and outside of turn and who takes the big step and who takes the small. And what happens if this is not done correctly."

Let me save you the trouble by reminding you that I've consistently pointed out that the person on the outside of the turn has a larger swing.

Your mistake is in still not realizing that the movement on the inside, while smaller, is still a swing.

And you obviously still haven't watched that Hilton video you like to recommend, because if you had, you would have seen that in both of the first two measures, the person on the inside of the turn is executing a swing at the same time as the person on the outside, they are just executing a somewhat smaller one.