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+ View Older Messages

Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by Anonymous
3/11/2009  6:25:00 AM
You can't describe her alignment in that way, because the feet and body don't have the same alignment on the second step. The foot should be placed pointing to LOD, and the body, having turned less, should match the man's position, and so be backing DC (but the technique never defines the body's alignment separately. But I agree that DC is where her body faces.
Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by terence2
3/11/2009  8:53:00 AM
As i stated.... good book answer,, but NOT how a seasoned dancer would execute same.. the book is a GUIDE...
Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by Anonymous
3/11/2009  9:09:00 AM
How would a seasoned dancer do it, then?
Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by Polished
3/12/2009  5:02:00 AM
Anonymous. If the lady is to follow the man, which on this step she has to, because she is on his right side and must be moving later than the man. If she is to finish in the same position that she started she must allow the man to pass and must not arrive before her partner who has the longer distance to travel. Really it is just common sense. Plus that step to the side must be smaller than the man's step otherwise the centres will be lost. This happens in the V. Waltz also by the poorly trained.
Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by Anonymous
3/12/2009  6:28:00 AM
There is nothing here that is different from standard technique. I'm looking for the view of a "seasoned" dancer that shows how the technique is inadequate to describe the movements required at a high level.

As for your comment that lady moves later than the man, or she arrives first, that supposes that they move at a constant speed, but they don't. Both step on beats one and two, but the man has a faster foot speed and flight, as he has further to travel. If she doesn't move at the same time as he moves, she cannot achieve the body rotation that would allow him to pass.
Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by Cyd.
3/14/2009  4:13:00 PM
Anonymouse. Some how we have gone away from the argument which was NFR on the first step of the Natural Turn in the International Style Waltz for the lady.
So lets go along with your side track which you instigated
You know as well as i do that there is no Quick Open Reverse in the Waltz and the Foxtrot according to the technique book by Alex Moore. There is in the Quickstep and it ends on step four which becomes the first step of the Progressive Chasse. So we go to the Progressive Chasse Page 47. The first step for the man has No Foot Rise. For the lady there is Foot Rise.
Tell me this. Is there Foot Rise for the lady on the very first step of a Quarter turn in the Quickstep. Also is there rise on the first step of the Quarter Turn for the man.
Should a Professional who is teaching know this. Of course they should. They should also explain that if the lady were to Foot Rise on that step , which is the very first step we ever learn in the Quickstep.She will alter her body position with the man by taking his centre away from him. Usually with a beginner instead of the confusing NFR it is often said that the person on the inside, takes a smaller step than the person who has the longest distance to travel, they being on the outside of the Quarter Turn. End of story. I think that covers the NFR part so should we leave it right there.
The answer to the original qiuestion some 75 answers ago. Of course a Professional should know the sylabus.
Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by anymouse
3/14/2009  5:13:00 PM
"You know as well as i do that there is no Quick Open Reverse in the Waltz and the Foxtrot according to the technique book by Alex Moore. There is in the Quickstep and it ends on step four which becomes the first step of the Progressive Chasse. So we go to the Progressive Chasse Page 47."

No, we stay with the quick open reverse, because it is that, and not the progressive chasse, which is the reversed roles analog of the feather finish in so many respects. (The progressive chasse is not comparable to either, because it has the type of rise needed to close the feet, in contrast to the type of rise used in the quick open reverse and the feather finish which will pass the feet)

You seem to prefer to change the subject rather than confront the problem in your line of reasoning.

You will not be able to explain difference in proper footwork between these two situations until you take the difference between the man's role in dancing and the lady's role in dancing into account.
Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by Cyd.
3/15/2009  12:30:00 AM
Anonymous. In which book is there a Quick Open Reverse in the Foxtrot described.
This whole things goes back to the question asked by John Power which was Should a Professional Know The Syllabus.
Unfortunately you are obviously one of those who was not taught correctly simply because you have no idea what No Foot Rise is about otherwise you wouldn't be arguing here. Let me tell you once and for all. When you see the letters NFR on the ladies LF it means that that next step, a T. comes from a flat foot on the supporting leg which is of course is the ladies fore mentioned LF.
Is that too hard to understand.
Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by Anonymous
3/15/2009  2:14:00 AM
Quick Open Reverse is charted (in full) as a standard Foxtrot figure in Howard (2007) at page 99 and is a standard syllabus figure.
Re: Should an IS pro know the syallbus?
Posted by anymouse
3/15/2009  5:40:00 PM
"Unfortunately you are obviously one of those who was not taught correctly simply because you have no idea what No Foot Rise is about"

There is no doubt about what no foot rise is about, but that is not the subject.

The subject was why the man has THT and foot rise on the inside of the feather finish, in contrast the TH and NFR that the lady has when she does the comparable action on the inside of the quick open reverse.

And the reason of course is that even when put in a comparable situation, the man will act differently than the lady would, because his role in the couple is different - he must remain in a dominant position, and cannot be under the swing of step 3 in the way that the lady would be if she where the one who had been on the inside of the turn..

(Note that this difference only applies to the open turns, not to actions that close the feet on step 3)

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