While some teachers at some places may teach something that isn't "leadable" on the social dance floor, there are many teachers that do try to teach leadable steps and work hard to find steps that are fun, leadable, interesting and that look nice.

But consider this(speaking on the "social level" here):
In group classes, the teacher needs (hmmm maybe the word is "should") to teach to the Median group level rate of the class, even if the class is geared towards beginners, intermediate level or advanced level dancers. So many students that come in to learn "socially" just want step-step-step-step and don't really care about how to actually get the technique needed to execute the step well. Some students end up in classes that they are not prepared to take because they have not gone through the "beginner fundamentals" of a particular dance, or ANY dance for that matter.

How many classes have you actually been in where a teacher did try to explain the lead or followers part including what the leader and follower should do to be able to better execute the move and you see students looking around the room acting bored or worse, talking over the teacher so not only do they miss what is being said but the student they are dancing with and those around them also miss what is said.

How many students come in to a group class then never see a teacher for a one-on-one (personal/private) lesson to figure out what is going wrong when they attempt the step?

Yes, some studios may be out to "get your money", but many are not. Many teachers are people who have studied and are teaching may be doing this as their source of income; Something they have just always wanted to do, have a passion for. When you are taking lessons it is like going to college.... you pay your tuition, but you will only get out of it what you put into it.

The only way to learn and execute a step well, be it the "step of the week", or the "dance of the month" is to understand your basics, listen to what the teacher is saying and watch what they are doing (50 minute groups can fly by!), ask questions and, if need be, take a private or 2 or 3 or 20. But most of all--get out there and try it out. You won't really know what you are doing "wrong" or better yet what you are doing "right" if you don't get out on the floor and go for it.

Hmm, leading the "move of the week" socially.

Well, first off, I tend to have very negative associations with a concept like "move of the week". For me, a phrase like that implies something transitory, which doesn't teach much in terms of generally applicable concepts. Not that this is always true, but I think we've all seen examples of class material invented just to keep things interesting. I personally have much more interest in something common that might be the 'subject of the week' for further refinement.

I can't speak for other men, but what I choose to lead socially depends a lot on what I think would be enjoyable to try with the person I'm dancing with. If I'm not fairly confident in something new - including how to transitition into and out of it, I'm unlikley to lead it. And if it's at all tricky to follow, I'm unlikley to try it except with someone I did it succesfully with in class, or someone who I know to have excellent technical and following skills.

If you want to try class material at a social with someone who was in the class, then it might be worth specficially asking. One thing socials can be very good for is practice at how to mix new material (once it is reasonable comfortable) with the more familiar material - it's like saying that a word isn't really known until you can use it in conversation. So I might take a phrase out of a class routine and use it down one wall, then do something completely different, but come back and borrow part of the routine again later. Or if there is a figure that I don't like, or consider unsuitable for the person I'm dancing with, I might make a more appropraite substitution.

Bruce, you are very smart.

You have struck gold with your instructor. It is truely someone that wants you to dance for whatever reason you might want to dance (it is not their business anyway), not for the sake of earning more money nor trying to hold you back. If i was still in Florida, i would have considered practicing and possibly partnering with you. You have a great attitude as a leader and i think it is evident that your heart and soul are in dance.
Happy dancing !

I'm with Tom on this one, the women who attend the class expect you to lead the new move, I'd rather wait a week or 2 before attempting it; also it gives me a little time to work out any bugs with my instructor so I am leading it properly.


As for being capable of leading someone other than your instructor a good female instructor will force the student to actually lead the steps. When I learn something new my instructor will run on 'auto-pilot' until I understand exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, and doing it correctly... then she actually starts following. If I don't actually lead the step she won't follow, or will follow a wrong lead then show me how I mislead it and how to correct it. So far I've had no trouble leading other ladies in anything I know.
While I don't compete, although I would like to try it, I'm guessing it has to do with the finding a partner problem. While there may be plenty of available women to partner with the problem is finding one with whom your individual style is compatible (any ladies in S/W Florida looking for a partner?).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by groupie:
Guys, how often do you try to lead the "move of the week/group class move" in your weekly dance social ? I have attended group classes at more than 1 studio, where the move taught in class, never makes it out onto the dance floor. I am not even talking about a leader trying the move out, they never even attempt it. Isn't group class a waste of time then ? Why do we attend group class then ?
[QUOTE]

There are alot of reasons for this. Sometimes when I'm in a group class, I recognize that a pattern being taught is difficult/impossible to lead socially. Some group class instructors will take pieces from routines and use them to compose a pattern that they teach in a group class.

Another problem is group classes are often evaluated by how much is taught in how little time. This often encourages instructors to skip over lead and follow clarifications to get through a pattern completely.

What are ways to make this improves this? You can ask questions about lead and follow during the class, if the instructor is not making it clear. This encourages everyone (leader and followers) to think about how to make the pattern or elements of the pattern work on the social floor.

I also agree with JohnS that breaking the pattern up into smaller elements is a good idea. I generally will try to lead a small piece of the pattern. If they are unable to follow, I will try leading it again try to clarify my lead. If someone is able to follow then I will lead that piece with another element added on.

I know some leaders who really are vigilent about learning the art of social dancing. They remember what patterns specific partners have followed before and try to mix in a combination of those and one or two new ones. These guys are the ones that regardless of how they look, always are popular dance partners.

In the end I think group classes are effective for people who already take privates or have enough personal dedication to work the lead and follow details out with a social partner. The problem is that there is an entire population of social dancers who don't take privates and don't spend enough time of learning the principles of lead and follow.

Happy Dancing,

E

" Pro-am events are just a means for professionals to make money "

Well, i have always thought that this is exactly the reason for pro/am, at least now i know that i am not totally crazy. You very quickly pick up on this vibe since the am normally has to do what the pro wants.
Since we started such an interesting conversation, what about the general feeling of "i want to marry you if i like to dance with you". I think this is another part of the problem leading to only a few couples competing am/am. Most couples competing in am/am are married, isn't it ? Can anybody explain this to me ?

"We men never lead anyone in the 'move of the week/group class move' because it'd be so predictable"

Yes, leaders, i agree, but both follower and leader are new to this move. Wouldn't it be easier for you to lead it initially if you know that the follower has some idea of what is coming and can maybe help you out a little.

I mention "move of the week", because if students are not comfortable using it on the dance floor right away then the group class move is most likely just a "move of the week". Let's assume that you liked the group class move or part of it. As a follower, I don't expect you to lead the move 100 % correct right away, try the move as far as you know it, even adjust it if you have to. Isn't it easier to recall the material from group class sooner rather than later.