Could someone clarify something for me please?
Fallaway reverse turn in foxtrot.
timing is "slow - and-quick-quick"
How does this fit with the beats in the bar? After all we are dancing to the music and i like to know when the steps should occur. Before anyone tells me this will make my dancing mechanical, let me say that once i know this, i'm in a position to modify it in subtle ways to put interpretation into my dancing. I don't believe that ignorance is bliss.

Phil. Slow quick and quick. Complete the Slip Pivot on a Quick. That is if you do a Slip Pivot there. Just one for the record .In the Waltz Fallaway Reverse with the Slip Pivot try 1 2 3 and. With the Slip on and. It seems to be widely used now by comp. dancers.
1 2 and 3 doesn't feel as good, neither does 1 and 2 3.

The "and" borrows the tail end of the "slow". In terms of the total amount of time, there is only the slow.

Matchup to musical beats is a far more complicated subject about which a book could be written all by itself.

hi Suomy
matching up to the beats is not difficult at all.
From what you've said (which is what i imagined was the case, but wasn't sure) and counting the foxtrot music 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & ...etc, the slow lands on beat 1, the "and" lands on beat 2&, the next quick lands on 3 and the final quick on 4.
I've seen dancers dance this fallaway reverse as all quicks.
It's interesting about the slow - quick - and - quick version. Wouldn't this make it difficult for the lady to get round the man as she would have less time to do it? Maybe not - i'll try

Phil. I agree with dancing the slip on the (and) when I can remember to do it. I was taught to go into the fallaway slip pivot faster than I would a reverse turn this feels faster than a slow but not as quick as a quick. Ha HA. Dave

"From what you've said (which is what i imagined was the case, but wasn't sure) and counting the foxtrot music 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & ...etc, the slow lands on beat 1, the "and" lands on beat 2&, the next quick lands on 3 and the final quick on 4."

Um, no. The initial slow is much closer to beat 2, and the final quick long after beat four. As I said, it's not simple, really it takes years to get it figured out. As a clue, don't think about when the feet arrive and depart, think about when the body moves.

This is true for a basic SQQ timing as well - the fallaway just makes it more complicated.

This is another topic really, but a very interesting one. "It's not simple - it takes years to get it figured out" may be true, but it's true because there is no clar, unambiguous explanation anywhere. Let me make a few points:
1)The technique book defines a step as starting when the feet cross.
2) In music the beats are well defined - in simple music for example, it's when the notes are struck.
3)I've watched top dancers carefully, and they make their foot placements in general on the beat (apart from 'and' steps etc and deliberate hovver- type movements)
4) If dancers tried to make the defined start of a step coincide with the beats, they would be placing their feet between the beats (in general) and it would look like they were dancing off time
The real decider for me is the Viennese Waltz. Watch the top dancers next time - they without exception place their feet on the beat.
Now, maybe foxtrot is different from all the other dances, and i understand all about musical interpretation, but if there is something different, it needs to be explained.

"3)I've watched top dancers carefully, and they make their foot placements in general on the beat (apart from 'and' steps etc and deliberate hovver- type movements)"

Then you haven't been watching good foxtrot.

See archives of rec.arts.dance for some very carefully recorded real-world timings.

I'll agree with the first statement, but the second should be qualified with "...when followed by a slow". When followed by a quick, as is often the case with a fallaway action (eg bounce fallaway to weave), the fourth step of the fallaway should land squarely on the beat.

Actually, even the slow of the falalway is debatable. It doesn't initiate the same degree of swing as most of the basic Foxtrot actions, and many prefer to land squarely on the beat and stretch the movement through the second half of the step, better defining the "slow and" rhythm.

The delayed or "stretched" slow works well by itself, but when broken up into a "slow and", the delayed action tends to muddy the rhythm.

So while I'm a strong proponent of the "stretched" Foxtrot timing in most cases, I don't necessarily recommend it for "slow and quick quick" timing, particularly on the fallaway. My vote goes with Phil's timing breakdown.

Regards,
Jonathan Atkinson

I hope it's kosher to ask you directly for an opinion. Do you think it is wise or unwise for a lady to help her partner with timing? If he can dance on time with their instructor, without a struggle, why not with his partner{who happens to be more experienced than he}? We're not speaking of musical interpretation, we're talking 123 or SQQ.
Thanks