Is it sqq or qqs ? IF we arrive with our weight over the left foot on 3& we still have 1& beats to go before we are lowered on the one. That's why I like to think of swinging my legs at one speed(size of steps not equal) and thinking that each step is 1.1/3 beats allthought it may not be exactly correct it does give me a smooth foxtrot or so I am told and feel. But it would need a teacher to see if what I think I'm doing is so and hopefully that teacher will be playing an international and not a swing foxtrot as so many teacher do in the U.S. when trying to get their studants to dance on the second beat when the music is saying to dance it on the first beat. Thanks for this great website . Dave

My teacher is just getting us to dance the foxtrot on the second beat. What is so different in the music between a social and International foxtrot?

Janet it is difficult for me to explain since I had no formal training in music,but on vistiting Chaleston S.C. we where learning the social open foxtrot,the teacher had forggoten her music so I give her a cd of my favorite International foxtrots ,but no one could dance to it. The problem was that we moved on the first three beats and stopped on the forth and it did not go with the music,so we continued the lesson without music. Fortunatly the DJ arrived in time for the dance.

To a musician a swing and a foxtrot would have different emphasis.

But the real problem is likely something that ordinary people know but beginning dancers forget: movement is about the body, not the foot.

When we go to take a step down the street, we move our body and only then move our foot to catch it. Unfortunately, when we take dance lessons, we become obsessed with moving and placing our feet, and forget all about the body. A beginning dancers wants to take a step with his foot rather than his body, and as a result instead of having the body action on beat one where it should approximately be, he wants to place his foot on step one. If instead he remembered to think of movement of the body, his foot would land closer to step two.

Of course that's not the whole situation either. Many dancers want to hit the right timing, but cannot because they are falling out of the second quick of the previous figure, literally falling ahead of the music. Learning to control that lowering, including learning to not even commence it until well after beat 4, is an equally important part of the puzzle. (As mentioned elsewhere, the reduction in altitude begins as the feet pass on step 2, but the falling action does not commence until late in step 3)

sorry, his foot would land closer to beat two

I partly disagree with your previous statement . It is the feet that move the body . The heal of the foot hits the ground on the one ,the body arriving just after. The difference between the learner and the experienced dancer is that the learner has to use his conscence mind to dance the figures the experienced dancer,just like in walking can rely on his subconscience mind to move his feet for him which allows him to listen and move his body to the melody. So his timing is being kept by both his body and his feet. Solders keep timing with their feet,they don't have to learn the steps.

"The heal of the foot hits the ground on the one ,the body arriving just after. The difference between the learner and the experienced dancer is that the learner has to use his conscence mind to dance the figures the experienced dancer,just like in walking can rely on his subconscience mind to move his feet for him which allows him to listen and move his body to the melody. So his timing is being kept by both his body and his feet. Solders keep timing with their feet,they don't have to learn the steps."

I'm afraid you've missed the point entirely. Soldiers and tap and latin dancers keep rhythm with their feet, but smooth dancers do not.

In ordinary walking, the standing leg sends the body, not the moving foot. The moving foot arrives only as a result of the movement of the body.

Initial dance training for the smooth dances tends to get this backwards. Students try to dance them like the rhythm dances, placing a foot in a specific spot at a specific time. But this is putting the cart entirely before the horse. Smooth works by sending the body (with the standing leg) and allowing the moving leg to come along as a consequence of this motion.

As a result, in a true slow action for foxtrot, the body will be moving on one but the foot should not land until the every end of it, very nearly beat two.
Many people try for years to dance it backwards, placing the foot on one and then arriving the body on two. The reason they struggle with it is that it's terrible energy management - at a time when body flight should be carying the body forward they are retarding it, at a time when the legs should be unfolding easily they are pumping ahead. You can see this stop & go foxtrot anywhere and it looks horrible. But see someone who's learned the correct order of actions for a slow, and the dance has grace, elegance, or to put it bluntly it actually makes sensse.

"Initial dance training for the smooth dances tends to get this backwards. Students try to dance them like the rhythm dances, placing a foot in a specific spot at a specific time. But this is putting the cart entirely before the horse"
Let's not be too hard on those teaching beginners. You can't just say to a beginner "move your body smoothly to this music" and expect them to come up with a foxtrot. A teacher has to explain the footwork - where the steps actually go, heels and toes etc, and basic rhythm. Without good footwork, there is no chance at all of good movement.
Nobody would dream of telling a tennis beginner "here's a racket - serve this ball into that square". They learn the grip - how to stand - movement to the ball etc. Only when the fundamentals are solidly grasped to tennis players - and dancers in a different way - start to express themselves

"Nobody would dream of telling a tennis beginner "here's a racket - serve this ball into that square". They learn the grip - how to stand - movement to the ball etc. Only when the fundamentals are solidly grasped to tennis players - and dancers in a different way - start to express themselves"

My guess is that tennis beginners are much more likely to take a free and natural swing at the ball than dance beginners are to take a free and natural swing of the body. We don't have nearly the same mental hangups about swatting at something with a tool that we do about performing with our own bodies. As a result, it's easier to focus on the goal even while learning some details.

Wheras in dancing there's the whole obsession with the feet - putting them in the right place, not stepping on the partner, etc that is really quite counterproductive in that it focuses our attention on the wrong part of the body. The smooth dances are dances of the body, and while proper foot actions need to be practiced, the employment is prompted by proper body action, not the other way around. This is precisely how we function in our non dance lives - we send our body where we want to go and our feet support it, it's only the obsessive foot concerns of early dance efforts that interrupt this - sometimes it can take years to re-learn how to do in dance shoes what we've spent our lives doing in street shoes.

Suomynona. I am right then to say that the difference between step push and step swing is the speed at which the body passes over the RF on step one of the NT,if it moves to slowly we will have to push instead of swing the left leg into position on step two. But what happens when we try to control the speed of the body over the foot for various reasons,we would have to be carefull that we do't end up pushing.