Modern Waltz.I understand that drive is forward and backwards. Swing is from side to side. and sway comes in on three. It would seem that some think that swing is sway. Which brings me to my second point. Does the man and the lady both swing at the same time. I was always told that no couple swing at the same time. Only the person on the outside of the turn swings. The other follows up, then it becomes the other persons turn. Better ubderstood in the V. Waltz. The man swings the lady doesn't. Now the lady swings and the man does not. This way the V, Waltz flies, each working off the other.

The concepts of swing and sway defy easy simplification.

Generally, swing is forward and backward with respect to the feet, but rapidly becomes sideways in the body as the CBM rotation happens early in the the step where swing occurs. Those who insist on delaying their CBM past the proper point will have a more forward-backward swing in the body, but they will still end the swing with the body fairly sideways to it.

Sway is the position which results from the combination of swing and CBM - if your swing ends with the body moving sideways, then one side will be higher than the other and we call this sway. You can also fake a similar position without swing, and some people would call that sway as well, but it's a decorative shape (or used to aid static lines) not one involved in movement across the floor.

In actuality you can have sway without CBM, if you start your swing with the same side lead you end it with, you don't really need CBM to achieve sway. But usually we use CBM to change leading sides during the course of a swing. If you executed a swing that was actually forward or backward with respect to your body (not something you want to do) and ended up with an incline forward or backward rather than at least diagonally sideways, it's unclear if this could be called sway, but it's not really a usefull question as it's not a position compatible with partner dancing.

Suom, Thanks for giving clarity to my understanding of swing,sway. I only disagree with you on the timing of th e body when dancing swing and sway. I say we control the speed that we pass over the right foot"NT" with foot presure through the floor therefore,the timing has to be with the foot and not the body. Dave

"I say we control the speed that we pass over the right foot"NT" with foot presure through the floor therefore,the timing has to be with the foot and not the body. Dave"

The speed through step one is pre-deterimined by the downswing out of the last figure.

A major mistake in foxtrot is taking a full downswing too early, and then trying to retard the speed for the first step.

The speed of step two depends largely on how much of the body flight present in step one you choose to convert to rise. You can add or subtract energy with the action you use over step 1, but this is inefficient dancing so you should do so only to adjust for other couples getting in your way.

Suomynona. Question 2. Still on the first three of the International Waltz
( have to put that lot, there does seem differences in other styles ) In the Waltz on step two. Is the lady lower on her toes. Is she the same height on her toes. Or is she higher than the man.
And if she is or is not what is the explanation. I had better add that there are still discusions on how the first three should be done by our experts, even though it has been with us since 1922.

If the lady on step two was the same height as the man.She must have swung too early. Probably taking the mans centre away from him.

The issue is not one of height, but of residual sway. The person on the inside of the turn may end higher than their partner, so long as they do not lean diagonally forward over their partner. In contrast, the person ending backwards could and probably should have some residual shape diagonally forward against the movement that was just finished. Shape against the movement is good, shape into it is a very risky thing usefull only in small amounts in special circumstances.

The height at the peak of a swing is a different issue than the use of NFR at the bottom of one - that strongly impacts the foot to foot action. But at the top of the swing, the amount of rise between the parnters needs to be coordinated more in terms of not using up one partner's personal capability before the other's. You can in fact rise and lower in place without affecting your partner, so as long as the trends in your rise and fall can be matched in spirit by your partner, all should be fine. Notice how people of different heights can dance together?

Anonymous. Are you saying that in the first part of the NT Waltz that the movement is back so it's better to lean forward rather than back if we can't remain virtical on a side plain(sway).

Don wrote:Not exactly.

Swing by definition takes place on an arc. Think of how you swing a bat, a golf club, or a hammer. These are all ramges of motion taking place in different planes, but all in the shape of an arc.

The second thing all swinging actions have in common is that they require a free release of energy. For example, if you were to hold the seat of a playground swing and guide it slowly through its range of motion, it would not be perceived as "swinging". In order to swing, it needs to be sent with a free release of energy.

So here is how I would define swing: "The free release of energy through an arc".

As I illustrated with the baseball batt, golf club and hammer example, the swinging action is not necessarily tied to any one plane of motion. So you can see, then, why it shouldn't be confused (or even compared, for that matter) to sway. Sway is a position, while swing is a range of motion. Or several ranges of motion, actually... only one of which results in sway.

The range of motion that results in sway is "pendulum" swing, occurring in the same plane as the golf club. But don't forget about the equally important "rotary" swing (like the baseball batt), which has nothing to do with sway. Rotary swing results in... you guessed it... rotation. Or in ballroom terms, progressive rotation.

Coming back to the concept of "free release" -- this is the most oft overlooked aspect of swing. It is the key ingredient in your basic natural and reverse turns, and without it, you will not "swing". This is why Tango, although it rotates, doesn't "swing". It's also why social dancers often lack that "swinging" quality, even though they may be rotating and even finishing in a swayed position. There must be a free release of energy, or there is no swing.

So now back to the observation: "Swing is side to side". It has the following problems: (1) There is no arc in side-to-side motion, (2) It confuses swing, which is an action taking place through a range of motion, with sway, which is a position, and (3) It neglects the other possible ranges of swinging motion, such as rotary swing.

Now to the second observarion: "Sway comes in on 3". Actually, 3 is the beat where sway is dissolved. It is at its maximum, which is really its endpoint, right on the downnbeat of 3. You might hold it for a brief moment, but for the most part, the duration of 3 is spent dissolving the sway. As to where it "comes in", that depends on who you talk to. Some (myself included) will say it begins at the tail-end of 1, while others insist it doesn't begin until 2. We can have that discussion another day. Either way, 2 is the beat most charatcerized by sway, while 1 and 3 are spent, at most, only partly in a sway position.

Regards,
Jonathan Atkinson

The so-called rotary swing is really a misunderstanding of a situation in which the two sides of the body swing along different paths.