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Is dance music phrased
Posted by quickstep
2/2/2006  11:41:00 PM
Of course it is. We can all without any difficulty count the four bar introdiction. But who knows that there will be eight bars of music played before a new phrase starts. Who knows that in Foxtrot 4/4 music. the first beat is strong, the second softer. the third strong but not as strong as the first and the fourth lighter. The Feather Step as we know starts on the strong first beat. Well how come we have couples being allowed to dance 3412 instead of 1234 when the music is clearly saying which part of the bar comes first. Todays competitor, I mean the best, will choreograph there routine in eight bar phrasing also. Our teacher even in a beginners class will count them in on the 8th bar in the Modern Waltz. The routine is also an eight bar routine as it should be.So lets fire away guys with your comments or questions.
Re: Is dance music phrased
Posted by phil.samways
2/3/2006  3:52:00 AM
Experienced dancers know about the 8-bar phrasing and would not have much difficulty picking it out of most music. However, like all skills, it's important to be able to walk before trying to run. There are many more important things for beginners/novice/ intermediates to be thinking about than the 8-bar phrasing.
I agree with your comments on the feather step - it certainly feels more 'comforatble' starting it on beat 1.
However, although i'm well able to pick out the 8-bar sequences, and like to dance to them, i have other more important things to work on first.
And then of course, you're all ready to start off in a comp.. and another couple move in front of you and you end up a bar late.....!!
Re: Is dance music phrased
Posted by owendancer
2/3/2006  5:44:00 AM
I agree. There are more important things to worry about initially.However, Students need to know music structure and why and it is good that some recognize that some dancers start a pattern or a dance differently. Once they understand it becomes easier for them and the instructor to learn/teach a pattern.
Re: Is dance music phrased
Posted by GermanDanceTeacher
2/3/2006  4:16:00 AM
I agree, dancing always "3412" is dancing against the music, but at some points of a choreography it may be wanted to break with the strict monotony (like a big 'syncopation') and come back later to the bar.
So I think sticking on phrasing too much can also be boring. Example: to fit a 2-bars-phrasing it would be impossible to dance a Foxtrot Natural Weave followed by a Three Step, because this part has 3 bars. So the next Natural Figure starts on "bar 2", but this may be intended, e.g. to emphasise man's heel turn on a (perhaps) following Impetus. So a spectator may see the dancer "off phrase" in bar 4. With this examample I wanted to show that phrasing can be a matter of different points of view.

Additionally I think some dances are constructed to be nearer at the musicals phrases than others:
Dancing a Quicktep Quarter Turn followed by a Progressive Chassé is undoubtedly a basic construction, but completely off phrase: Chassé starting on beat '3', both parts together lasting 3 bars - nobody faults. One may say: continue with some figures of 5 bars and you can build a 8 bars construction, but what do we have? - We are in phrase every 8 bars - and inbetween? So I would say, Quickstep (and Jive) are highly off-phrase dances, where perhaps the Waltzes are nearer at the musical phrases, where Foxtrot and Tango are somewhere in the middle.
Re: Is dance music phrased
Posted by 3xuschamp
2/6/2006  12:34:00 AM
Another strange topic
Phrasing is not about the beats in the bar, its a term to refer to the bars in the "phrase"
A True Professional will "phrase" their dancing to reflect the music.
Certain bars are emphasized in certain dances. there is always a build to end each phrase so if you are really reacting to the music(i.e. dancing)you should be reflecting that build. You shouldn't just be executing steps, but unfortunately alot of people think that is enough. You don't need to choregraph phrasing, but it does make things easier in the long run.
Re: Is dance music phrased
Posted by Don
3/4/2006  8:30:00 PM
German dancer. Once only 2/4 Tango's were recorded. Now we have 4/4 which does, if a person is not carefull, takes a dancer out of phrase. For an example Two Walks. Progressive side Step. One Walk and a Link. We are now on the wrong beat if it were 2/4 we would be OK. I think the reason for recording in 4/4 is because it is better for a vocalist to sing. One German Orchestra leader was asked why 4/4. His answere was they put out a 2/4 and had to re-call it for the lack of popularity . I asked an international competitor how do you handle the music if you never know what it is going to be. The answere was. They treat every Tango as a 4/4. I asked another .How do you manage a Four Step and come out on the correct phrasing. Simple was the answere. either stand still for two beats or you can do a head flick for two beats.Do you strike this problem in Germany. Or are your discs vetted to make sure they are 2/4. Because it doesn't happen where I live .
Re: Is dance music phrased
Posted by Anonymous
3/4/2006  8:55:00 PM
"For an example Two Walks. Progressive side Step. One Walk and a Link. We are now on the wrong beat if it were 2/4 we would be OK."

No, you would still be off phrase. Writing a tango in 4/4 makes this obvious, but it's still true in 2/4 (where the phrasing unit becomes 2 measures).
Re: Is dance music phrased
Posted by Don
3/6/2006  12:38:00 AM
Anonymous. With two beats to one bar of music counted 1 2. 1 2. This is how the Tango was meant to be. If you do the Walks Progressive Side Step into a Link to 4/4 timing you will arrive on the Link on 34, it should be 12. If you carry on into the Closed Promenade and a Reverse Turn you are dancing out of phrase with the music. You will be entering the Reverse on the count of 34.
If the Tango is a played at 2/4 tempo this problem does not exist because the count will be 1 2 1 2. At this time there is no telling which of thoes is going to be played. To be on the safe side treat everything as 4/4 even if it isn't. That means you cut out the Progresive Side Step. The Four Step needs special attention. Instead do the Five Step. If you do the Four Step you must stand still for two beats.
Having said all that have you ever wondered why in a major competition the dancers don't seem to be doing the kind of steps you have been taught, the Quarter Turns Progresive Chasse Lock in the Quickstep. Try it and then tell me how are you going to be able to enter the first step of your Spin Turn on the count of 1 2. There is a way two Lock Steps will keep it in rhythm, or maybe a Pepper Pot will do.
Re: Is dance music phrased
Posted by Anonymous
3/6/2006  8:04:00 PM
"Anonymous. With two beats to one bar of music counted 1 2. 1 2. This is how the Tango was meant to be. If you do the Walks Progressive Side Step into a Link to 4/4 timing you will arrive on the Link on 34, it should be 12."

And it would still be off phrase in a 2/4 tango, because 2/4 tango has an element of phrasing that groups pairs of measures. It may not be as strong as your american hernandos hideway type tango, but it's there and a sensitive dancer will pay attention to it.
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