Level Advanced.
Have I got this right? The dancer who steps forward turns their hip and torso towards their partner. Yet, the dancer who's stepping back turns their hip and torso AWAY from their partner. In a sense, the dancer stepping forward will always be chasing the hip that's turning away. Even with contact it seems an unstable concept.

Puzzled.The lady can't possibly turn her hip away from the man. The step for the lady or the man is turn body to the right.
For the lady, straight out of the book says "LF. back, turning body to the right.
For the man "RF. forward, turning body to the right".
CBM for both.
If reading from a book one has to be sure that they know which is the right side. For the lady it is the shoulder leading turning clockwise. For the man it is the rear shoulder turning to the right. I think most might say it is the man's left shoulder that is turning. It doesn't really matter. Both people are turning their bodies to the right, with the feet going straight ahead. If this is Foxtrot Feather Step the words slighty to the right come into the equation.

Quickstep.
Man steps forward with the RF, turning the left side of the body forward (CBM). At the same time, the lady steps back on the LF, turning the right side of the body back. (CBM) Her right side is moving away from his left side. If you want to quote the book (Alex Moore,Ballroom Dancing) then read pages 15 - 16. It states: CONTRARY BODY MOVEMENT. There are four ways of turning in dancing. etc. Step forward with the Right foot and at the same time swing the Left hip and shoulder forward. The counterpart, of course, is: Step back with the Left foot and at the same time swing the Right hip and should backward.

Hi Puzzled,
That's the best post I've read in a long time. You have certainly got me thinking. It would be interesting to read what a lady dancer feels. May I suggest, Laura.

It is the timing of the turn and the and the shoulders turning seperatly to the feet that mes the difference.

Puzzled. The man turns the left side of his body the same amount and time as the lady. She won't be turning away. It is better i think if we use the terms clock and anti- clock. Here can be the confusion. Stand back to back both take one pace to the right. Turn around and do the same . Question is which way is to the ladies right. Imagine this. Two bike wheels on the same axle. Spin one to the right, go around top the other side and spin it to the right. they are going in opposite directions. If the lady is asked to turn to her right which way does she go. That's why clock or anti- clock is much easier to understand. The other thing which is revelant to this . Is I was taught years ago that once the lady took up her position she stayed there. Not any more the bodies, are now in a constant state of flux shifting either side to side. or up or down, this will have to happen to create shape and comfort. Any body who doesn't agree don't blame me I am only quoting from Steven Hillier. The key word is the slipping of bodies. Now I know why those dancers of yesterday seemed so dull and staid compared to todays dancers.

Quickstep.
A common fault not always picked up by teachers is having danced step 2 of a Natural Turn, in the Waltz, the lady's right side of the body is almost in Promenade Position. This is because the lady allowed her right side to turn away from the man when dancing CBM. The message I posted had nothing to do with which way the turn is made. If you want to use the analogy of a clock-face then. Man faces 12.o'clock, lady backing. Man steps forward RF and turns to right to face 3.o'clock (1/4) Lady steps back LF and turns to right to back 3.o'clock (or to face 9.o'clock) and of course she makes the same amount of turn.

Hi to All,
On my travels, I've noticed this fault quite a lot. One of the main reasons, other than the lady anticipating a turn, is the left hand hold of the gentleman. The positioning of the gent's left hand is further forward towards the lady's right shoulder. This left hand hold is causing the
gent's left arm to be almost horizontal to the floor. The theory behind this is to give the lady more freedom of movement, in her torso Those of you who are new to the English style, will not know that originally when the gent danced a Line figure the lady was led to follow the gent's body line and extend the Line through her head and shoulders. Now lots of ladies are almost becoming detached from the gent and dance the line themselves. To the beginner you can learn a lot by studying photos. An example of what I have written is to study the logo of a couple at the top of this site. They are dancing an Hinge Line which is a development of an Oversway. It's an example of the lady being completely detached from the gent. This type of line I meet up with a lot. No longer does the gent look towards the picture he's creating. (Just a thought. Hope it's not Jonathan. If so, I'm banned!) If any of the above faults are in your dancing, here is a tip from one of the great English coaches, the late Charles Thiebault and it is this: having taken hold with the left hand keep checking your left hand and thinking of, 'Come to me.'

"A common fault not always picked up by teachers is having danced step 2 of a Natural Turn, in the Waltz, the lady's right side of the body is almost in Promenade Position. This is because the lady allowed her right side to turn away from the man when dancing CBM."

If she is not going to resort to stepping out of the way (instead of dancing CBM), the lady probably will need to turn slightly more than the man does slightly sooner. He will then catch up with her. As long as this doesn't create an excessive gap, there's no problem.

Comparing it to promenade is a questionable thing - a good promenade isn't very different from a closed hold in the upper bodies - a bad promenade on the other hand...

Suomynona,hope you don't mind me asking but are you a qualified professional teacher of dancing in English style?