hi john,
could you give a run down of the natural spin turn with relation to physic concepts involved in this simple looking step yet difficult to master when partnered
(eg - axis of rotation, leading the lady, rotational swing etc..)

thanks in advnace

As with any traveling rotation, the axis of rotation can be thought of in a couple of different ways: Either as a stationary axis occurring outside the body, or as an axis that travels through space with you and shifts from left to right side. Generally, though, I find that thinking in terms of axes does not help one's Pivots or Spins. There are better approaches.

The best teacher's I've had have always taught the importance of rotating around the "common center" (not around one's own center, which inevtiably distorts the dance position), and all of the techniques that we use to accommodate this.

For example, you can't move along the same track as your partner while rotating and expect to stay in a fixed dance position for very long. The person on the "back half" of the pivot (man on 1, lady on 2) must curve off the track and shift to the inside of turn. The person on the forward half must stay on the outside of turn, dancing nearly a straight track and following the partner's right, not his or her left, side.

Since pivots of any kind are more a matter of passing one's partner in space than of rotating around them, it's important for the person on the forward half to think of taking two forward steps, delaying the foot rotation as long as possible (there should be very little at all on the first step), until the weight starts transferring to the second step (left foot). The result is that the body will turn slightly faster than the feet in the beginning, with the feet catching up (rotationally speaking) later. The second step will be a slightly turned-in forward step, which ultimately becomes a back step, but without too much body rotation at the point when weight is moving onto it... the body should still feel like it's projecting diagonally forward as the left foot turns underneath.

I have a few more messages to answer here, so I'm running out of time. But hopefully that will give you something to think about, and perhaps others will add their 2c as well. This message board seems to be domainated lately by ballroom techies, so no doubt my message will spark some discussion which will shed additional light on the topic for you.

Regards,
Jonathan

"Since pivots of any kind are more a matter of passing one's partner in space than of rotating around them, it's important for the person on the forward half to think of taking two forward steps, delaying the foot rotation as long as possible (there should be very little at all on the first step), until the weight starts transferring to the second step (left foot). The result is that the body will turn slightly faster than the feet in the beginning, with the feet catching up (rotationally speaking) later. The second step will be a slightly turned-in forward step, which ultimately becomes a back step, but without too much body rotation at the point when weight is moving onto it... the body should still feel like it's projecting diagonally forward as the left foot turns underneath.
"

The spin turn is a lot more like an ordinary natural turn until nearly step 5 than a trivial reading of the book would suggest.

In particular, note that the lady's footwork for step 4 is HT, wheras in an actual pivot turn (see quickstep: natural pivot turn) it would be HTH.

Don't feel like you have to complete a pivot on step 4, it's enough to modify the type of action used on step 4 of a natural so that it has a small hint of pivoting. The real difference comes on step 5, which develops into a spin.

On the inside of the turn, the man needs to be very carefull not to step very far off the line of dance. Making room for the partner is a very subtle thing - do it too obviously and you simply anchor the couple to one spot on the floor, which will impede the lady's progression by making her curve her parth towards the end of step 4, rather than moving straight and spinning without curve as she arrives on step 5.

thanks john and suomynona for taking the time and answering my question.
this website rocks!!!

Jonathan. I'll remember that. That is rotating around a common centre. Double Reverse Spin I have in mind which also travels from step one. Anyway a very informative letter. Thanks.

"I'll remember that. That is rotating around a common centre. Double Reverse Spin I have in mind which also travels from step one."

In contrast to the spin turn, the DRS may not be so much a rotation around a common center as it is a rotation first around a center located closer to the lady (during her heel turn) and then around one located closer to the man (as she steps around him while he is fairly stationary).