I am having a general problem with leading ladies in turns.
As I understand it, usually the lead is a raise of the arm (usually left during a LH-RH hold) to a hight that allows the lady to comfortably turn under her own arm, while giving direction of the turn with a circular movement of the wrist (clockwise for a natural, counterclockwise rotation for a reverse turn).
And before I come to the conclusion that most of the ladies in my area are simply lacking in skill to understand leads, I wanted to ask if anyone has any advice giveable over the net that could help (especially if a lady could tell me what a good lead feels like).

I had one lady a few months back during a studio party say to me (after she did a reverse turn instead of the natural I had tried to lead her into and making it impossible for us to end up facing eachother at the end) that if I wanted her to "turn the wrong way" (!?!) as she put it, I should use my right hand to shove her into that direction as "ladies will always turn left unless forced by the man to turn right" ... after a bit of consideration I discarded that advice and must be honst cant even remember who gave it to me.

What made me remember the whole subject was a situation a couple of weeks ago dancing with a rather competent young woman. After a few dances when had gotten a bit more used to eachother's style, during an EC-swing I led her into a reverse turn at the end of which I changed LH-RH to RH-RH hold and lead her into a natural turn during which I did my own reverse spin. Instead of a natural she did a second very energetic reverse turn though. This caused her arm to twist in such a way that I was truly terrified she might have hurt herself.
She was fine, still it got me worried and thinking.

i am just a beginning female dancer, and i take community learning classes, but i have danced swing with the teacher quite a bit. when he leads me into a turn i have never turned in the wrong direction (surprising for me since i am not yet very good at following ). anyhow, when he leads me into a turn, i have noticed the angle of his body gives me direction where to go, and if he has his RH on my back he will gently push me in the right direction. and he uses his arm to anlge my body in the direction he wants me to turn. i dont know if this will help you, but i hope it does!

ballroom_billy

I'm confused by what you mean when you say "natural" and "reverse" turns. I'm not used to hearing those applied to swing dancing. Which direction is the lady going (from her point of view) for each of those?

You don't say how you are leading them now. For what I've mostly heard called an "underarm" or "outside" turn, where the lady is turning to her right, what I've heard instructors say is that you lead by raising your hand so that your hand is above your elbow. For an inside turn, where the lady is turning to her left, you raise it as though you were looking at your watch, with your forearm closer to parallel to the floor.

I don't know if that helps at all. Maybe a guy will come along and give you more insight.

Sorry to confuse you Ellen, yeah I ment "outside" and "inside" ... I do get names mixed up. Right and left anyway :)

Thanks I will ponder on what you told me and next time I dance I'll pay extra attention to see if it is part of what I do alreay and if not will see if I can incoorporate it into my lead.

I learned the lead, in general, is raising the arm and flattening the palm down for her to turn, and palm up to indicate turning oneself. The most important part of the lead, as far as i am concerned, is making sure the follower is on the correct foot. Just raising your hand leaves the direction and who is making the turn up to the interpretation of the follower. Keep chargin'.

Just try again and again with different ladys and ask them directly how you can turn them so they can understand what you want.
In my opinion, there are 3 most important things: 1. you should know exactly what you want (or at least give this impression) so that your body leads too - its at least as important as your arms.
2. you should try not to lead too much - otherwise, the lady might loose her balance. You should only give the singnal for her to turn - and not turn her yourself. At the beginning, it might be difficult to get the balance between leading too less (the lady doesn't get the signal) and leading too much.
3. Talk with your partner and don't forget: dancing is fun! If you can manage, try not to use your head too much - listen to the music, feel the dance and just try until it works out - hopefully you can find a partner with whom you can do this.
Good luck,
Hine