A Fallaway Rock or a Link a Chasse to the Left then to the Right.Then repeat. Can anybody tell me how they are counting this Basic movement.

There are many ways to count, depending on your goal. For example:

1. SLOWS AND QUICKS

This is not very effective for counting Jive, but if you feel so inclined, you could do it. An example would be: "QQ, QaQ, QaQ".

Note the use of the word "a" rather than "and", which indicates the duration of the count is either 1/3 or 1/4 of a beat, not 1/2.

2. BEATS

When counting beats, technically you're supposed to count to the number indicated by the time signature (4 for 4/4, 6 for 6/8, etc), but you don't have to. In Jive, for example, the time signature tells you to count to 4, but you can also count to 2, 6, or 8.

Coutning to two is especially handy for Swing and Jive, because you don't have to worry about the mismatch between the length of the measure and the length of the pattern. Everything works in twos. An example of this would be: "1, 2, 1a2, 1a2".

If you count according to the time signature, it's the most technically correct from a musician's point of view, but the fact that most beginning Jive patterns last 6 beats make it a very complicated prospect. Here's how it would look if you count two Jive basics (fallaway rock) in a row: "1, 2, 3a4, 1a2, 3, 4, 1a2, 3a4". It takes two basics (12 counts) before you repeat the counting pattern.

If you ignore the time signature, there's nothing wrong with counting the number of beats according to the duration of each pattern. For example, if you have a fallaway rock followed by a whip pattern, you could count to 6, then 8, like so: "1, 2, 3a4, 5a6, 1, 2, 3a4, 5, 6, 7a8". The only problem with this method is that it makes phrasing very difficult, but unless you're choreographing, you don't really need to worry much about that.

3. "BEATS AND BARS"

Probably the most challenging method of counting is "beats and bars" (that's beats and measures to us Americans), whereby you replace the first beat of each measure with the measure number. A simple (non-syncopated) example of this is: "1, 2, 3, 4, 2, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 3, 4...", etc.

Now superimpose a couple of Jive basics over this, and it starts to sound really complicated: "1, 2, 3a4, 2a2, 3, 4, 3a2, 3a4". Enjoy.

There are only two reasons you should ever need to use this method: (1) If you're choreographing, and need to count the number of measures, or (2) If you're taking an exam with a sadistic instructor.

4. STEPS

Sometimes the perfect thing to count is not beats at all, but steps. This method is useful for identifying a particular step in a routine (eg "When you get to step #7, stop!")

An example of counting steps in Jive is: "1, 2, 345, 678".

Salsa dancers are adamant about NOT counting steps -- There has been a movement over the past few years to drop the "123, 456" count in favor of "123, 567"... Which is fine. But you should know that it's not INcorrect to count steps. It's simply another way of counting. Every method has its strengths.

One quick footnote here: The one way I would NEVER recommend counting Jive is as it is written in the new ISTD manuals: "1, 2, 3a4, 3a4". It's the most ridiculous way of counting I can imagine. Whoever dreamed this method up should be fired.

Reagrds,
Jonathan

Administrator. Thanks for the reply of which I have printed for future reference. Your last paragraph is the one where the ISTD manual suggests counting 1 2 3a4 3a4 which I had in mind when I wrote. I figured that if i continued with that count i will be checking back on 56. Then i came across a recent "Michael Wentink tape "Out of Africa where everything is counted in eights. That is the whole of the Jive all in eights.

Hi Waltz 123,
So which daft bat decided to coin both chasses 3a4 3a4? For an answer we have to go back to the 40's in the UK. At that time we had a dance commonly known as Boppin'. In this dance the gent holds the lady in R to R hand hold. His foot positions mainly consisted of weight transferring from foot to foot with the counts of 1.2 then 3.4. while the lady danced the rock action (1.2) into a shuffle (3a4), now known as a chasse. The R to R hand hold was used to keep the lady in rhythm by short jerky movements of the arms for the beats. The dance then was only based on one bar of music. 1.2.3a4. On the shuffle the lady would spin to the R followed with a rock then spin to the L. On each spin the gent would normally release hold, catching the lady's R hand again after the turn. Of course, there are variations to the above. At the start of World War II the Canadian forces (not the Americans) came to the UK and with them they brought the Jitterbug, Lindy Hop. This was the first time we had seen two chasses being danced together and the teachers started to use the teaching count of 3a4 for the second chasse and that's what it was a ‘teaching aid'. Because the UK teachers cut out the acrobatic figures of the Lindy the dance then became known as the Jive. The term ‘Jive' means not quite right or a load of bull.

Luv2Dance. It would seem that the people who sanctioned the ISTD manual are living in the past. Time for a change.

I learned the 1 2 3a4 3a4 as the count in Jive back in the 1960s in England. It was the only count I ever heard at several different schools. So it has a long tradition.

An advantage of this count is that one always knows what 3a4 means. It's the timing on a Jive chasse. It's used for getting the timing across, and obviously has no relationahip to the beats withing a measure or series of measures.

Gordan R. It could be that Latin wasn't an international dance untill about 1965. The ISTD manual was printed in July 1971. Then updated in July 1974. As you pointed out you were learning in the 60's. I fail to see why a count from a bygone dance is still in the book today.

Quickstep: The standard text for Latin back in the 1960s in England was Walter Laird's book, first published in 1961, and still (many editions later) the IDTA standard text.

The only mention of the 3a4 count in Laird is the following: "The Jive Chasse is timed QaQ and is sometimes counted 3a4." All of the charts in Laird show the timing (QaQ) and beat values (3/4 1/4 1).

Teaching counts tend to get passed on from teacher to student, and change very slowly.

GordonR.The only book I would go to is Wally Laird's. When you wrote passed on from teacher to student and change very slowly.That is teachers who never learnt correctly themselves in the first place. There are a lot of backyard mechanics out there. No teacher that I know of teaches 12 3a4 3a4.

Quickstep,
/*That is teachers who never learnt correctly themselves in the first place. There are a lot of backyard mechanics out there. No teacher that I know of teaches 12 3a4 3a4.*/

That's a stupid statement to make!