I am planning to buy a regular tailsuit from a commercial retailer but I was wondering if this is really acceptable in ballroom dancing. It seems to me that the tails of these commercially retailed tailsuits are somewhat shorter compared to those custom made for ballroom dancing. Does anyone know at what level should the tail be (above, below or at level with the knee)? I don't have access to tailors who specialize in ballroom dancing suits. Thanks.

Derek,
Where in the world do you live? To come up with anything like what you need in tailsuits , you will have to deal with an english tailor. Ron Gunn is one who attends several competitions here in the US each year. Another is Ashmore. If you are not in the UK or in the US and are unable to attend a comp where Ron Gunn is in attendance, then opt for his measure yourself form which you should get the assistance of a tailor to measure you and fill out. Whatever you do don't get a tailsuit from ONIK in Los Angeles, CA.
Your assessment of the commercial tailsuits is correct, the tails are short, they are too wide and too heavy. This is not the main problem, however, the shoulders and arms and back are not cut correctly. They are designed to look good while standing straight with hands at the side such as during a wedding ceremony. They hunch up across the back and the shoulders and look as bad as possible. If you cannot afford a new suit, then advertise for a used one. Also, check the several web sites which specialize in used competition outfits, maybe you will get lucky.
It sounds to me like you are planning to enter competition without the help of an experienced coach. This is folly. Get the help of someone who has been down this route, the advice is invaluable. I have seen all kinds of disasters related to poor costuming which could have been avoided by a little consultation. I don't mean a front end teacher with no competition experience, get someone who has competed as and amateur or a professional over a number of years. The more years experience, the better. I know, I have been at it for some time and we still show a new gown to our coach before purchasing it.

A good place to look for tails and other evening wear, where you don't have to spend the mortgage, is in vintage clothing shops. Good vintage clothing stores will usually have several in stock (usually both in black and white), and the owners are usually quite happy to keep an eye out for what you're looking for on their shopping expeditions. A decent local tailor can usually get you a good fit without too much effort. I get many of my ballroom and latin outfits at vintage shops. They're perfect for social occasions, and usually of better style and quality than what's made these days. Since I'm not competing at a high level these work for comps too. I've seen many tail suits in very good condition for under $100.

Len - Thanks. The responses to my simple query are very informative. At the present time I am not really serious in going to competition on a regular basis but I want to experience it. Of course I also said that to ballroom dancing but end up as a regular and avid dance student. I started dancing with a social goal in mind. I literally interpreted the word SOCIAL and have gotten so much fun and enjoyment as well as new friends. Even if it's only for social purposes I take my lessons seriously and worked hard on it...just my OC personality. Somehow my partner and instructor decided that we are good enough to compete so here I am preparing way ahead of time.

Der-
I agree with David. You would be better off, at this point with a cardigan and accessories as previously mentioned, and you can't beat the price. A good time to get tails(in my opinin)is when you are sure that you are going to compete on a regular basis and when you are dancing fairly comfortably in the Bronze level. As David mentioned, the majority of Amateur comps don't allow costumes, tails and gowns, until you are in the Open divisions. On the other hand, most Pro/Am comps allow costumes at any level. Tails can be worn for both the American and International styles. I, too, will be attending the USABDA Nationals in a few weeks. This comp would be a good one for you and your partner to spectate, as it will give you a sense of competition at your level and above or below. Next year it will be in Utah- maybe we'll see you there on the competition floor then. For other amateur comps coming up in your area, check out the colleges/universities websites that are within driving distance from where you are. These comps are usually one or two day events with a good amount of competition, depending your the level and age (adults can also participate). Your studio can keep you informed of Pro/Am comps that they attend. I am also planning on going to OSB this year-another great comp to be at. I hope that this information helped you. If you have any other questions-please ask. Good luck with your dancing.

[This message has been edited by Len Diana (edited 07-22-2000).]

Thanks for the advice. I actually live in Ohio and have plans to join a competition in the future. I just want to take care of these little things way ahead of time so I can concentrate on my dancing. My instructor competes but did not really mention this to me probably because the competition is still several months away. Also, I am a newcomer (finishing bronze level)and would like to get used to wearing a tailsuit if I can get it earlier. Does Ashmore and Gunn show up in Ohio Star Ball?

Thanks, David, and Len, for your comments on men's costumes.

I am certain that Ron Gunn or one of his associates will be at the Ohio Star Ball. You should call him to make an appointment before he leaves the UK, this way he will be expecting you. Sometimes he will not have a booth but will be available at the hotel for measurements and fittings. Calling him several weeks ahead assures that you will make contact. I must warn you that the cost will be in the $13-1500 range depending on the current exchange rate. He doesn't take plastic and so it is not easy to get the best exchange rate.
For the early stages of your competition career I suggest you get a 100% cotton Pique front shirt, a plastic collar with studs, a white tie and the necessary studs and cufflinks from Seleka, Pattersons, or any of the accessory suppliers you see advertised on the web. Get a black cardigan sweater, and a pair of black trousers from wherever. This has become the standard attire for male beginers in international standard. It looks good on the floor without becoming too costly. Also,some comps do not allow syllabus dancers to wear costumes.
It is more difficult for the lady to come up with an inexpensive non-costume dress. The colors are usually limited or the dresses are undanceable. My partners have found dresses in the bridesmaids section of small bridal shops as well as occasionally at Lord & Taylor. The best is a colorful practice skirt and a same color leotard top but it is difficult to find a good color match and so black becomes the color of choice. You will find often that more than half the ladies on the floor have this color and dress combination.
If your partner is looking for a costume, I can recommend Dee's Creations of Baltimore, MD as she makes Polina Pilipenchuk's dresses and she knows how to make the small lady look tall.
If you really want to get the competition bug, you should try to get to the US National competitions in Providence, RI this August. You will see hundreds of amateur couples trying for the national titles in all of the dance categories. I'll be there plugging away with all the rest.
If I can be of further help let me know, I will try to answer your questions based on my experiences. If you need a name and phone number of a seller of shirts and accessories, I will get you one but they are all about the same so I would rather you search out one yourself.

David - Thanks again. You have given me some invaluable information for a newcomer. I'll try to get hold of those people or retailers you've mentioned.

Derek (I've shortened my username to Der to avoid confusion with another Derek who's also active in the forum)

I know its an old Thread 15 years ago,

but things have changed since then regarding
where and how to get a proper Ballroom Tailsuit.

No Need To Modify a Rental cause the Shoulders Hunch Up and Distort the Front.
The Tail is Too Short and Wide.

What has Changed is You can Order Online Fast and Easy at couple places i found.
Not Too Many are out there. I found 8 sources in the USA that offer Dance Apparel for Men. Dont Buy from the folks that sell shoes only, cause they only carry stock latin pants with 1 waist size number needed then a buy now button. stay away from these vendors. you will be disappointed! trust me, i tried a few off ebay too.

some use hong kong tailors for their outfits and sell with only 2-3 measurements.
how you going to fix that if it shows up not fitting well? again beware

only 5 are direct manufactures that produce what they sell and require measurements
Diagrams Forms /// they sell and service the customer afterwards with alterations adjustments if necessary. Look For These Companies on line using google search
" ballroom dance suits " Tuxedo Dance Outfits " Ballroom Tailsuits "

these companies require you to fill in form diagrams completely filled out with details lots of numbers and complicated to fill out. Best To Use Company that needs more than couple measurements, visit a tailor for help if need it or do yourself which is what i did. all you need is a measurement tape and the instructions and the diagram form with an illustrations where and how. check each out is best way to find the right one
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in Additions you Need Other Items to complete the Tails Suit.
they dont all carry these items, but i found mine ok with my choice

not only the Tails Jacket and Tuxedo Tails Pants will do

need about 8 additional items that cost about $300 dollars
Price Range'15 from $895 Hong-Kong Tailors $975/$1100 mid-range $1300/$2500 High

there is a proper Pique Ballroom Tails Shirt,
not the same as your regular tuxedo shirt at all.
The Pique Material is the key, a waffle type fabric with cells, that match the Bow Tie, the White Waist Coat, the Pocket Hanky, & the Center of the Pique Ballroom Shirt.

This all is seen in the middle of the jacket, so be sure all your pique is the same color white and fabric. These items are hard to find but out there at couple places.

Patent Leather Shoes is usually the choice for the event. Be Sure To Put Vaseline on the contact points or get tripped up with sticking shoes, this is a pro secret.

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www.dancepants.com they sell mostly DancePants but do Vests and Jackets as an Add On.
they been around for along time since the 90's its an old site

or go to www.ballroomsuits.com have not used them, but i know others who have,

like others said about that onyx in LA and the super scooper neck design
if that is what you prefer go to him.

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its a White Tie Event wearing a proper Tails Suit at a Major Competitions
if its a Showcase Event at your Dance Studio its a Black Tie Event.
where you can wear of course black accent items/ bow tie/ studs and cuff links

White MOP mother of pearlis for White Tie Events preferred on the floor. black onyx might look sharper or nicer, this is ok for Am Smooth, so get both sets,

also on the shirt there is a detachable collar that needs 2 little studs front and back. The White Suspenders Hold Up Tails Pants 2 inches Higher up, why rental tuxes dont work, Short Jacket / Long Tails is proper ballroom style

i know this post is lengthy, must have been interesting if you got this far

Have Fun / Good Luck and happy dancin

Danczr