Hi,
I dance a Feather into a Fallaway Rev Slip Pivot for Q.Q.Q.Q. Then I repeat the Fallaway Rev and Slip Pivot but each time I've to retake hold with my right hand on the lady's back.
Anyone know the reason for this?

Puzzled. Just check that you are going into a Fallaway position early enough.You should be there by the second step on which you have shaped your toe inwards. As we know the Fallaway is like a Back Whisk from a promenade position, but it isn't. This could be the reason. Just one more thing in case you haven't noticed. Some of our better dancers are using a heavy sway on one and two steps. All quicks make it a bit snappy, but it should still look controled.

Hi Puzzled
I've had much difficulty with this too, but some things have helped me considerably.
The main problem is most likely to be that you're ‘losing' your partner. I'm talking as a man here.
some specifics which might be useful:
1)As you move into the fallaway position (i.e. placing your right foot along the line of dance, to be followed by your left leg back) it's important to keep your shoulder line unchanged. In practice, this means that, although you're about to turn to your left , you must ‘think' turn right. This allows you to take your partner with you as you move into the pivot part
2)Keep the slip pivot VERY ‘tidy' and don't try to travel along the line of dance too much. You partner has a lot of work to do in getting round you.
3)We dance two consecutive fallaway reverse turns in our foxtrot, but before the second one, we do a little ‘gathering' movement, which is man doing a lock, lady doing a Viennese cross (2 quicks). This does make the first step of the next fallaway reverse to be on beat 3, but this is easily absorbed soon after. this gathering allows much better alignment for the start of the next fallaway reverse.
4)The fallaway reverse turn timing is meant to be S, &Q,Q, though we sometimes dance it as 4 quicks, since 4 quicks is slightly easier.
Incidentally, this is one figure where twisting the spine to allow the shoulder line to differ from the hip line, is absolutely essential.
Good luck. I'm looking forward to reading other posts.

Phil. You have said for a Fallawy RF along LOD. As it happend I was just checking the Turning Lock from a tape by Marcus Hilton and the next step demonstrated was the Reverse Fallaway and Double Reverse Spin. At speed and with a slow teaching count. I can see no twisting of the spine. On the second step he is in a promenade position going backwards diagonal to the center. The third step is completely back diagonal to the center. At the end of the third step he rises high onto the toes and lowers for the slip pivot. The first step of the Double Reverse is down the LOD. If you have been told to start straight down the LOD with your Fallaway I would question this. I also have Michael Barr which is exactly the same alignment wise. He in this competition started in the corner with an Open Imputes , A Running Weave, Two Side Locks and a Fallaway. From the corner the whole thing never faltered from a straight line on the diagonal only turning on the Slip Pivot. This was in Waltz. So this is something to question or look for. In our studio we are also on the diagonal.

Hi Don,

If Phil is referring to the 3rd step then I agree with him. The rotation of the hips more than the 'top' takes the fallaway slip to another level because of the change in timing and opening of the top's at the top of the rise.

Rha

"The rotation of the hips more than the 'top' takes the fallaway slip to another level because of the change in timing and opening of the top's at the top of the rise."

Such a hip vs. shoulder difference is indeed key to the fallway figures - and one reason why the rigid-body crowd will never be able to do a close job of partnering in them.

I'd like to speak about another component though. There are two opinions for the action of the man's standing foot as he pushes into the slip pivot. Either can work, but only if it is danced with care - poor usage of the standing foot is notorious for spoiling this and many other figures.

The official way is to rise in the body but without foot rise to gather the lady almost closed, and then send the body back via a toe release action. You can swivel on the heel of the standing foot as you do this, the moving foot tracing a sort of mirrored "J" on the floor, with practice making a very clean slip pivot.

The other method, perhaps more popular today, is to use slight foot rise and dance off the ball of foot. If you are concerned with the overall dynamics of the figure and given the lady a more obvious rise as a hint to drawing closed, this may be prefered (or if you simply don't have confidence in a toe release and push from heel action). However it is likely to be less precise.

Personally, I use a toe release on a fallaway & slip pivot, and dance off the ball of foot on an open reverse & reverse pivot. But sometimes I try the no foot rise/toe release method there too.

As you complete the slip pivot, it's important to think about body weight position relative to the foot. For the man who is about to go forwards, his weight should briefly kiss his new standing heel, but must come promptly forward into the step. Similarly, the lady finishes the pivot on her ball of foot, but will need to send her weight back through her heel, release the toe, and push off of it into the next figure. Failing to dance this toe release is a major cause of instability in whatever follows the slip pivot (and many other figures too)

Acutally, i should clarify that slightly.

The offical rise and fall for step 3 is "up, lower e/o 3" and the footwork is TH. What's unwritten there is that there's a slight re-rise in the body (but without the foot) to gather the lady closed, just before moving back into the pivot.

Many today prefer to dance the figure without lowering the heel on step 3 at all. This can also work, and may create a more dynamic action, but it tends not to be quite as precise lowering the heel on step three and then releasing its toe while sending the body weight into step four.

If the figure feels soldly comfortable greater dynamics are wanted, skipping the lowering might be tried. If the figure is unsteady, learning to do the official way, sending the body weight via a toe release will result in substantial security.

Hello Rha. It might be of some interest to quote from a video by Richard Gleave which I have. He says. "It would seem by the amount of people writting in that the Reverse Fallaway and Slip Pivot is causing a lot of bother. I would in normal ballroom hold as a pair, dance a Curving Three Step. I would do this a few times. Then the lady will do the Curving Three Step whilst the man does the Fallaway ". When you think about it all the lady does is go backwards. Doing it this way makes the pivot easy. If you have any Video's with this step in notice how much wider the man is on the second step. Also many are adding a strong sway on 1 and 2 steps.

""It would seem by the amount of people writting in that the Reverse Fallaway and Slip Pivot is causing a lot of bother. I would in normal ballroom hold as a pair, dance a Curving Three Step. I would do this a few times. Then the lady will do the Curving Three Step whilst the man does the Fallaway ". When you think about it all the lady does is go backwards. Doing it this way makes the pivot easy."

Sure, it makes the pivot easy - because you've already walked halfway through the rotation. That is not a fallway action at all, but something that the rigid body crowd likes to substitute in place of one.

And actual, honest fallaway action carries a comparatively straight path of motion throughout. Because the path of motion does not really change, the body shape must instead, to let both bodies move through the same space. There is only a very slight displacement from the track in even in the slip pivot - mostly you have two bodies moving closely together in a fixed direction, and constantly changing shape in order to stay towards each other even as the orientation of the bodies relative to the movement changes.

If instead you dance the curved path, you can of course keep your body more rigid and square to itself. But you aren't dancing a classic linear fallaway, instead you have the lady backing around in a little arc and the man chasing her - which is indeed precisly what happens in a curved feather.

A skilled dancer should be able to dance both a linear fallaway action, and a curved curved feather action, and not only find one comfortable and always substitute it for the other.

oops, my fingers danced a curved feather but my mind was leading a curved three...