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Ballroom hold / position
Posted by Peter
11/21/2006  5:37:00 AM
We have a very different body height (lady is 9 inch smaller as the man) and we have problems with the dance frame and hold.

In this case, how would be the solution for the closed Position?
Re: Ballroom hold / position
Posted by Anonymous
11/21/2006  7:26:00 AM
I,m 6'1" tall and my pro partner is 5'9" am my amateur partner is 5'2".
With 2 1/2 or 3" heels the shorter partner is about 5'5", but it is still a big difference.

I have no problems with the taller pro partner connecting.

The problem dancing with a shorter partner is she will invariably pull or hang on my shoulders--this will totally destroys my posture. Plus, we have never been able to get in a good postion with light hip contact and keep it there. We have struggled with this for 6 years and have had lessons with good pros to help us, but height difference is still a big problem. I have long legs and her legs are shorter--so this creates a problem too. We can move well together, but connecting properly breaks down quickly when we start dancing. We do American Smooth and use more open work to compensate for this height problem.
Re: Ballroom hold / position
Posted by Anonymous
11/21/2006  7:32:00 AM
You will need to drop your elbows if you dance with a substnatially shorter partner. You right arm will slope downwards from the elbow, but you left elbow will need to be down enough that you can match her right hand without excessively depressing your forearm (which would break the palm-to-palm connection or the wrist alignment).

The key to movement is to project the body weight forward into steps rather than trying to hold it back in balance while swining your leg forward. You need to get your body moving, to get your partner's body moving, to create space into which your free leg can accomplish a delayed swing. Similarly, don't bend your standing knee forward while keeping your body back - your body must advance over your standing knee to provide a "flat front" for your partner. Since these things take you off balance, you will have to carefully time the lowering so that it can procede directly through with the drive into the next step - once you have lowered, you can't delay or you will fall over.

That is of course a fundamental skill for any partnership, but it is extremely crticial in the case of a height mismatch.
Re: Ballroom hold / position
Posted by Don
11/21/2006  4:49:00 PM
Anonymous. Tall and having dance frame problems. Why not go to dancesport UK, Then right at the top left side find the Inernational results. Find Amatuer and then probably the tallest male dancer in the competition who came fourth Warren and Kristi Boyce. Click on the Ikon for pictures. See for yourself the position of the ladies right arm and her left also . Also look at the pictures and see if you can see where the conection between the bodies might be. It is not at the hip level.See what the angle is for the ladies right arm and copy.
Also if possible choreograph your dances in such away that the man is stepping outside the lady. That means some groups are not for you.
Re: Ballroom hold / position
Posted by Don
11/21/2006  5:18:00 PM
My comments should have been addressed to Peter. So here is a bit more. The man must have a good frame. The woman must fit that frame to be an ideal couple. The one who alters is the female. Do it the other way around it becomes a mess. Be very carefull if you drop your right elbow as a man. Otherwise you will be big on your left side and small on your right.From the other end of the floor you can look very one sided. A good teacher should be able to tell you which is the best position for you. Then stick to it.. The ideal right arm shape for the man is elbow slightly lower than the shoulder. Wrist slightly lower than the elbow. Depending on the height of the lady the right hand could be above or below the ladies shoulder blade. As long as the ladies left armpit is on the mans wrist that is all you need to worry about. I think that's about it. Best of Luck. All you have to do now is smile. One more thing. Allow the lady to dance her own steps. Give them space to move. There is a tendency for the tall with the small to
overpower.The lady should speak up if she feels she is unable to do the steps she can do when she is dancing solo. That is every step. As a man let the lady dance her own steps. Dont try to do them for her.
Re: Ballroom hold / position
Posted by Anonymous
11/21/2006  9:06:00 PM
"Be very carefull if you drop your right elbow as a man. Otherwise you will be big on your left side and small on your right.From the other end of the floor you can look very one sided."

Which is why you must drop both elbows so that they remain at the same height.

Re: Ballroom hold / position
Posted by Peter
11/22/2006  8:21:00 AM
Thanks for your answers

@Anonymous: What do you mean with "use more open work"? The same as Don?

@Don: You have well identified our problems. We can dance e.g. Quickstep better than Slow Waltz, I think because the Quickstep has more outside partner (and CBMP) positions. It´s a very good idea to choreograph the dances with more op-figures. Yes, if I drop my right elbow my left side is to big and will not lose my top-line.

You are right, I have read Warren is 6'4" and maybe they have a similar problem.

In the last two years we have worked with seven good teachers and we have many different opinions for our frame and hold.
Re: Ballroom hold / position
Posted by Don
11/22/2006  4:38:00 PM
Peter. You will use more steps that are linear if possible in the Waltz. The Waltz being the killer dance for the tall with shorter partner.In the Quickstep the body contact is higher. It doesn't mater if you are a short or a taller couple. Don't let anyone tell you that the contact has to be down in the hips for the swing dances.. I was told years ago that if I need a role model pick somebody who is about the same stature as myself. I will never do a Fallaway like a very tall thin guy. Obvously there might be a wider body here to get around. I would never do a Fallaway down the LOD instead of diagnal to the centre. I had one ridiculace teacher who insisted that my first step had to be down the LOD. I said I have a tape of Michael Barr, and I can assure you he takes his Fallaway diagnal to the centre. That didn't go down to well.
Just for the record . What is the angle of the ladies right arm in your opinion in those shots of Warren Boyce 's partner Kristi. There are plenty to choose from. Best of luck.
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