A number of posters seem to have become quite wedded to assorted misinterpretations of book technique which come about as a result of misunderstanding the exact meaning of some of the words used in the description.

For example, if someone believes that a "step" lasts from one foot placement or weight change to the next - that a step is a swing of the leg, rather than how it is actually defined as from one foot passing to the next, then they will form a mistaken impression of where the rise and fall goes. Even once the error of their interpretation has been proven, they will persist in believing that the actions should be danced in the way suggested by the misinterpretation, because that misreading has become comfortably familiar.

There's a comparable example. Most men comb their hair with a part on the side that they think looks best. But there's one big problem - the comb their hair while looking in a mirror! What they are actually seeing when they make this decision is the exact opposite - the mirror image - of the look they show to the rest of the world. You can get mirrors which don't flip your image, and looking in one is a bit disturbing, because now suddenly you realize that what you though was comfortable and familiar really isn't what you thought at all... to re-establish what you though you were doing, you have to switch your hair part to the other side!

Hi Anonymous!
I read your discussion with Don (Andrew Sinkinson) and it was very interesting. Now I hope you can help me...you said that you have to lower and to move at the same time. Here I have a big problem. My partner does this when coming out of PP and consequenly the last bit of lowering occurs on the "landing foot" (end of count 1) which makes it very difficult for me to come out there. I hope, you understand what I mean.Where is the mistake there? It would be great, if you could explain it quite simple, as English is not my mother tongue.
Thank you!

Hi Ballroomlady
Could you tell us which dance figures you're referring to? This will make it easier to answer you exactly.
I would consider the 'landing step' for a man when opening in promenade would be the left foot, which should lower (meaning left heel touch the floor) at end of step 3 (which i would dance to coincide with beat 3&).
body lowering, by softening the legs, ,would continue after this.

Hi Anonymous!

I am referring to any figure that follows the promenade, i.e. chassee. So after opening to pp and lowering at the and of step 3, my partner will keep on lowering into step 1 (men's right foot) until landing there. That makes it very difficult to "come up"/rise at the very end of step 1.

Ballroom Lady. My mirror is my very expert teacher who has a proven track record. If you follow the book you will not be too far wrong.That is in the Waltz.
Commence to rise at the end of one
Continue to rise on two and three
Lower at the end of three

Coming out of a Promenade on three and. You are as low as you need to be. From there commence to rise at the end of one.
When I first learnt to dance we were taught to lower and move at the same time. Your best bet is to get a instruction tape . All of which are by former champions and look for yourself.You might have a tape which you have looked at often.. I'll bet you never thought of looking for this part. If I want to dance as they did once upon a time then go ahead and lower and step as you are lowering. It is worth pointing out that as the weight is over the back of the foot there will be a movement to get the weight over the ball without having moved the feet. So you do not actually stand still. This is a movement of the body. Then the foot takes over.
You have probably worked out that I am lowering and compressing through the knees, moving the body forward ( this will happen without thinking ). I am not falling onto my next step. I am already lowered on the count of three and. This is how I am being taught. From there I will rise at the end of one. That movement of the body is after I have lowered. If I mistakenly did not move my body weight off the back of the foot my leg would go way out in front and I would be leaning backwards. And we don't want that.

"I am referring to any figure that follows the promenade, i.e. chassee. So after opening to pp and lowering at the and of step 3, my partner will keep on lowering into step 1 (men's right foot) until landing there. That makes it very difficult to "come up"/rise at the very end of step 1."

You will lower some as you dance onto the outside foot to establish the promenade on step 3. And then you will lower some more as you bend your knee and dance past that foot towards step one.

However, by the time you are arriving on step one you should be getting ready to go up again. And as you actually pass the body over the position of the foot, the fact that you are on your way up will become visibly. For example, the heel of the step 1 foot should just be leaving the floor as the other foot passes it at the official end of step 1.

Overall, the lowest point occurs when the body is between the position of step three and step one. That is where the downswing of once figure meets and blends seamlessly into the upswing of the next. Not all of this made it explicitly into the book, but it is implied by what did get written, and plainly seen in any video of championship performance.

Ballroomlady. You've answered your partners problem yourself. He is lowering on step one. He should aleady be lowered. If he does it wrong there its a safe bet he does it wrong everywhere. Just apply the correct technique which is commence to rise at the end of one. If this is a Foxtrot rise at the end of one. If you have any trouble explaining this to your partner ask him how many times does he expect to lower on the same step.

" If you have any trouble explaining this to your partner ask him how many times does he expect to lower on the same step."

Quickstep, any lowering can be broken into two pieces, regardless if you choose to think of it that way or not.

There is the lowering that occurs as your body moves over or is already over the foot. And then there there is the continued lowering that occurs as you bend your standing knee and project beyond the foot.

Technically, a lot of that second phase of lowering belongs to the next step. If you just continued down, you would be in trouble - but if you make sure that you have started up again as you begin to arrive on step one, you will be perfectly safe.

And there is no disagreement about this in the actual dancing of the world's best - only perhaps in how they describe it. If you look, the one point of disagreement is in the question of when you start up again - the English tend to hit their low point halfway between the positions of step three and step one, wheras the Italians tend to continue gently downwards until just before the body passes over the position of step one, and then rise more sharply.

And not that I spoke of the positions of steps 3 and 1. Almost all of this extra lowering is part of the duration of step 1, at least anything after the feet have passed would be.

Anonymous. Waltz. Down at the end of three . Commence to rise at the end of one. You can't rewrite this. So why not leave it alone. After three I will be as low as I am ever going to be. I do not lower on one I am lowered. The only loss of height will be the length of my step. This is unavoidable and being that it is natural need not be mentioned. One of your paragraphs leads me to beleive that you lower in the middle of one when you wrote that Make sure you have started up again. Are you trying to rewrite the book. My main concern otherwise I wouldn't even bother. Is that some persons might take you as being correct..

"Anonymous. Waltz. Down at the end of three . Commence to rise at the end of one. You can't rewrite this. So why not leave it alone."

I am not rewriting it - I am telling you with a greater degree of precision what the world's best dancers actually do, which does not match what is in your textbook.

"After three I will be as low as I am ever going to be. I do not lower on one I am lowered."

Then you are not taking advantage of what is now universal practice amongst leading dancers. There is substantial additional lowering during the early part of step one, however you must be ready to rise as you arrive on step one or even already rising, otherwise you will land heavily - which you have no doubt been warned not to do.