I'm reading the discussion of phrasing with interest and it sounds like certain waltz figures can only be danced on the even measures of a phrase and others only on the odd. Could someone please make a list showing which figures can go on which measures?

Are there any figures that can go on either? Can you change the emphasis of a figure to make it fit the other sort of measure?

So tell me. This really should be taught by a teacher. You have probably danced your Waltz nicely in time and thats ok. Most others are also. Then there is that couple that seem to get more out of the music and you can't see why. This has been on before and
is a good example. We start with a Spin Turn on the first bar of the music which is 123 after the four bar introduction We complete the Spin Turn on beats (223}. Second half of Reverse
323. Reverse Turn 423 523. Whisk 623. Chasse 723 to start again and repeat. You will now arrive for your Spin Turn on 823. It should be with the music 123 as it was in the beginning but we will now be dancing our second half of the Spin Turn with the music on (123). See the two in brackets.
If you can follow this it will help to understand. We arrive on a Lunge to the right on the count of 723 we hold for 823 and Slip Pivot ready for a Chasse to the right.. If I got excited I might arrive on 723 and leave on the same beat instead of holding it. Now I am out of phrase with the music.
The music is written in blocks of eight bars, with that eighth bar written in such a way that we know that the next beat is the first bar of a new phrase.
The top routine would be better, and to fit, if you wanted to repeat by adding a Corta hold it for three beats and continue with a Back Whisk and Chasse. Then you can do the whole thing again .
The best thing to do is to play a disk and count. If you are like me you will think. Well ,its been there all the time and I never new it.Even the Jive is eight bar phrased. The two places I go to, one is for Modern the other is Latin, wont teach anything that is not correctly phrased. I hope this will open a whole new world for you. Good Luck

Quickstep, you don't seem to have really answered my question - you provided only a single pair of examples. Please complete the list:

Odd Measures
============
123 of natural or spin turn


Even measures
=============
456 of natural or spin turn

And are there any figures which can go either place?

So Tell Me. . I dont think I am a good enough writter to put into words all that you want to know. It would become too much. Nobody want's to read something that goes on and on. So why dont you put down a routine you do, or make one up. It might be interesting for others to buy into this. Then we can all learn. If you make one yourself you might bear in mind that in the two examples it was neccesary to hold for one bar of music to make it fit. You might try something that includes an Oversway and finishes with a Chasse into a Natural Spin Turn to start a new phrase.The whole thing from beginning to the end is A Reverse Weave finishing in Promenade. Step through into an Oversway 323 How many beats will you have to hold the Oversway to make sure after the Chasse that Spin Turn is in phrase.
The above routine would not be advisable on the dance floor, it stays still too long but should be used only as an example only. A very skilled dancer could get away with this in a final with only six on the floor. But have a go.

Quickstep, your idea of phrasing is very good. But I'm still asking you to suggest what figures, beyond the spin turn, should go on specific measures or at a specific place in the phrase.

Or even better yet, to explain why they need to go there. And if there is any way to dance them differently, so that they could go somewhere else.

You have the start of a very good idea, but you don't really seem to yet have thought it through to any conclusion beyond put the natural and spin turn at the start of the phrase.

So Tell ME. I'm not sure what else you need to know. Would you like to start with a Curving Feather.
Open Impetus .Weave. Oversway. Chasse into a Curving Feather which is the start. You play around with this and figure it out , (if you can), what the timing should be. Which will be different to the first example.

Well how about a reverse turn. Where can that go?

So tell me. Just off the top of my head. Spin Turn 456 Reverse Turn .Reverse Turn .Whisk .Wing. Open Telemark. Depending where you want to finish and what you want to do. It could be a Curving Feather or a Reverse Weave. See if you can fit a Chasse in Promenade into a Chair . That is after the Open Telemark Another Open Telemark another Chasse Now all you need is something taking four bars of music to complete a sixteen bar routine.
Keep in mind in a competition you will only get 42 to 45 bars before they cut the music. If you repeat a 16 bar routine twice there are only about 13 bars to dance in the one minute thirty allowed

Quickstep, you still aren't answering the questin.

Don't make up routines.

Tell me which figures need to go in certain places and why.

For example, what part of the phrase is appropriate for a reverse turn?

Can one begin with a reverse turn, as it sometimes done by the amercians? Or not?

Why?

Perhaps i can help quickstep here. It is a difficult topic because it's really all about 'feeling' the music and interpretation.
However, here's some thoughts which i've found useful.
Music is usually written in 8-bar sequences, but it might help to think in 4-bar sequences too for slow waltz. The end of bar 4 is often 'weak' and bar 5 is strong again.
At the start of an 8-bar sequence it's best if the man is going forward, because the music is usually making another 'statement' (starting a new melody line, or repeating a melody line)and a 'strong' movement is needed. this usually involves the man going forward, especially for turning figures. So for example, a natural turn would be a good start for a routine, and many top dancers do this.But if you follow the natural turn (2 bars)with a link step(1 bar) you're on this weak bar 4 for the start of the reverse turn. So this wouldn't be the best choreography in the world, but it would still be good, and only a championship grade dancer would be too concerned about it.
The 8th bar is the end of the sequence and is usually weak, like the music is drawing a breath before continuing. so think how you would do this in your dancing. Which are the 'drawing breath' figures? Can i suggest opening into promenade position is one. So, as quickstep mentioned, you could go into a line step, such as a throwaway oversway, and recover to come out in promenade on bar 8. Then come out strongly, say with a passing natural movement into a corner. This is what the top waltz couple did at their lecture at the Blackpool congress last year (2006)following it with anothe line figure for 2 more bars, to get back on a strong bar again to come out of the line.
Probably any part of a figure where there is little travel would be good as the end of an 8-bar sequence.
So, it's up to you to decide 'strong' and 'weak' figures or parts of figures and match them to the music.
Now the really hard part. If you're dancing a pre-planned routine, you can of course phrase it out in advance. But what if a couple blocks you in a comp? now you've got to adapt and change your routine to match the music. You will need to develop the skill to 'know' the end of the 8-bar sequence is coming, and dance accordingly, maybe staying in that throwaway for an extra bar (and looking like you always did it that way, of course!).
Good phrasing is even more rewarding in foxtrot of course.
If anyone has more, and better, ideas, i'd be very interested in hearing them. Interpreting the music is really what dancing is all about. When it goes right, it's magic.