The Rumba is an entire family of rhythms, as well as the dance style. Son, Danzon, Guagira, Guaracha and Naningo all are Rumba Dances. Rumba is a combination of African dances rhythms and Spanish melodies - it originated in Africa and came to Cuba and the New World in the 16th century with the import of slaves.
To make a comparision with International Style and those original styles is not sensible. Originaly in Africa it is a safe bet to say they danced on a dirt floor in bare feet and not in a ballroom with a Cuban heeled shoe. Of course the danced changed. Why wouldn't it.

Would disagree-- everything in life has roots--- re searching those, and origins, allow us to implement whatever will be appropriate in a social context .

Of course there is no obvious relationship-- and yet, underpinning the whole genre, is Rhythm .
One always seems to identify dance by its physical structure --- fair analysis-- but, out of this " rhythm ", evolved movement, and as rhythm was implemented by additional instruments other than the drum, they became part and parcel of certain genres. ( You wont hear clave in Waltz !! )
So yes., there is an identity, no matter how tenuous, to the original root .
I dont think any student of dance, would say that there is much visual appearance, that is not really the point ( could say that about todays q.s. against the forties )

If you ever go to Cuba, you can still see dance in its near original form .

Ive spent over fifty yrs living , teaching and working with Latinos . they would agree %100 , that the " Latin " the ballroom world has developed, is laughable .

sad to say-- but the English ( and I,m one of them ) changed it conceptually many yrs ago .

I teach 3 styles, Intern., Amer. and a more indigenous form, primarily, in Guajira -- Mambo/ Salsa/-- Son .

Pretty much all dance has evolved to adapt to a social level of acceptance.
That should not ever obscure its roots .
By the way , " Rumba " , is a catch all term, Danzon ,( and Gauracha ) would be the correct names and more identifiable forms , in comparison with todays construction of Sq. Rumba, American style .

Sorry! but to say English changed the Rumba??? or any other Latin style dance is beyond me. Doesn't matter that you are a teacher of three or however many latin dances. You or any other English will not be able to replace what a true LATIN DANCE is all about. Yes, you teach it, BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE IT IN YOUR BLOOD! - NEVER THE SAME. That 100 percent of latinos agree....NOT

I think you have misunderstood the previous posting: it is my impression that t2 would agree with you.

Boriqua. You have obviusly not looked at the World Rankings for Amatuers ever. You will see that just about every country in the world is represented. Listed are a thousand or so who have a ranking according to their performance. Among those thousands who dance the international style many are from Latin countries and from Latin parentage But anybody who thinks that talent belongs to one group of people only is being ridiculous. Did British teachers have an impact on the changes in style of the Rumba, I say British and not English because Wally Laird was Scottish and his partner a South African. Wally was teaching how to break the movement over four beats into eight and sixteen also into thirty second back in the 50's, to get the correct interpretation of the music In closing i might add that there are many Latinos who do a first class Jive as well as a Paso. To be continued i am sure.

You did mis interpret my post--- I said-- that the English DID change the latin ( for the worst, in my opinion )

and for your info.-- my " latin " is street style, taught to me by P.R. and, to say that no one can ever transcend that " barrier " is obviously less travelled .

PS-- 95 % of my salsa students in the States ,were Latinos ( I also can teach in Spanish )

Terence2. Let me ask you a question. Two questions. Would you like to see The International Style of Rumba evolve backwards. Are you not absolutely enthralled when you see Paul and Hanna or Brian Watson dance the Rumba. I'm sure of the answer even from those who have never seen them dance live. While I've got your attention. In those dances you have mentioned. Is there any particular timing or is it a how I feel tonight. Which is usually all over the place from what I've seen.

2 good Q-- First-- dont get me wrong-- I truly appreciate the artistry of ANY world class performer.

The issue for me is this-- what the general public sees, and what they are told (the English have been down this TV road before on TV ) is quite contrary to what the reality of what is taught in the social world of dance.

Now I know-- it would be boring,to watch a Bronze Waltz-- but-- there are so many other options one could exhibit.
taken in its basic format, a Prof Silver Amer. style Waltz, would look far more attainable to most viewers, as would a similar Cha or Tango.

In otherwords-- given the TV ( or internet ) platform, we ( pros ) should be encouraging people to take that trip to the local school.Instead-- we tend to frighten them away !-- I just think its a golden opportunity missed .

98% of my business now , is social dance( this in the UK ! )but the numbers do not refect the exposure .


As to your 2nd Q--- No--- i do not want to return to the " old " school form of latin ( Intern style ) .

What i would prefer ( and most of my judge colleagues agree ) the disappearance of all the acrobatics, and the return to a purer format .

The music, in many cases, seems like warp speed, which does not allow for a more sensuous interpretation of the " dance ".
To divert that same subject to the Amer. style Tango-- even at Br. level, everyone feels the need to dance Prog.links , to attain a Prom. position, which is completely out of character for the style .
I could go on and disect all-- but I think you get my drift .

Lastly-- Timing-- yes there are definitely strong musical guide lines, to the more authentic rhythms used in the "latino" clubs .

Bachata is a classic e.g. where one can see Dominicans using contra rhythm in basics .

But-- Oddly enough, most latinos do not understand their own music. !!

What you will see at congresses etc. , are the afficinados ( or so they think ? ) attempting to educate the general public.Unfortunately-- its the " Flash and Trash " that sells .

Majority of the " teachers ? " in Salsa for e.g. really have little idea about the complex musical structure of Salsa, let alone all the dances that are danced and taught in the genre for e.g. ( Guajira , Yambu etc. ) all of these having a direct or indirect influence, at social levels.

To my mind, the whole point of learning dance, is to enjoy it at a level where you are with others of a like kind-- comp. dancing is fine,( I have done many yrs of it in the past )- but-- the social is where the fun is .


It also provides me the opportunity, to integrate some of the original basic concepts, which brings " sabor " to the experience .

It allows me to teach and dance , without restriction,and incorporate some of the more interesting rhythms and material, that will enhance the students efforts, and hopefully provide a more rewarding experience .

Terence2. I think you hit the nail right on the head when you wrote. Oddly enough. most Latinos don't understand their own music. Dancing in clubs and socially. they never have to give a thought to the correct interpretation of the music. Can you imagine the Modern Waltz being danced with no thought to the timing that the music is telling you to dance.
The motion picture Salsa is now on DVD. Anybody who wants to study a few moves would enjoy this one. It has a story line as well as plenty of dancing.

I agree with Terence as well. I came to ballroom after years of ballet training and some years of being a "salsaholic". I see latin ballroom and latin club dances (salsa/merengue/bachata..) as very different (albeit vaguely related) dance forms. I can appreciate latin ballroom as a highly stylized and technical dance form but also do love the raw quality of street/club salsa. Therefore, loving and appreciating both styles is certainly not incompatible!!

What I do not like is seeing people do salsa or merengue heats in dancesport competitions. To me THAT is laughable! Ballroomized salsa and merengue look plain wrong to me!!